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Updated: Reduce towing to about 8000LBS w/ lighter trailer and more accurate weight details.
I have been reading through these forums and have had a few questions. Now that I have a better understanding, I wanted to confirm that I have this understood properly. Looking at another members towing/payload specs I see he has a 2348 Payload w/ the following:
2016 F150
Lariat
FX4
500A
3.5EB
6.5’ box
HD payload package
BLIS
Tow mirrors
Chrome Running Boards
Tailgate step
Assuming we want to purchase something that can tow close to 8k, about 6 times a year, 44 flat miles round trip. I also assume that getting a similar equipped vehicle minus the FX4, running boards, and step would increase the payload north of 2400. Assuming we are towing a flatbed that is exactly 8,000 lbs w/ a WD hitch, that puts about 800lbs/10%, reducing the working payload to about 1,600. Given that my old man weighs about 200lbs and my mom weighs about 115lbs at her continual 29. They would have a nice buffer in payload, hitch weight, and overall towing?
On thing, my old man checked out a F-150 last night, it was a demo Premium fully loaded with a Payload capacity of 1527, that was at a really good price. He fell in love with it. After crunching the numbers, it looks like we would have less than a 300lbs buffer for the payload vs the ~1166 payload buffer of the HD Payload package. I told him that he would have to limit passengers and gear, if he is towing. He is a very cautious driver, though I want to insure that what we do is safe and within margins.
I'll be honest, I am bias for him going with a Lariat for the extra margin, though he really wants the Premium. Could I get an unbiased opinion, if the Premium would be fine considering how little he tows? I would like to show him this page with the opinion of people who know more than I do.
Trailer Info:
Trailer 1900
Kubota 4222 (I think this is wet weight)
Front Loader 1279
Bush Hog 500
Total: 7901
(Weight from manufacture's Website)
Last edited by solarity; 08-24-2016 at 02:25 PM.
Reason: More accurate info and less towing weight
Assuming we are towing a flatbed that is exactly 10,000 lbs w/ a WD hitch, that puts about 1,000lbs/10%, reducing the working payload to about 1,300.
Unrealistic assumption. Average tongue weight of a loaded tandem-axle trailer is 13%, and many have up to 15%.
On a tandem-axle flatbed equipment trailer hauling a tractor, you can fine-tune the hitch weight to get 10%, but that requires an hour's worth of time an a good tongue weight scale. Very few owners are willing to spend that much time and effort just to assure they have 10% hitch weight.
So when estimating, use 13% as the probable hitch weight, and don't be surprised if it winds up to be 15%.
With an F-150 that has less than 1,600 pounds payload capacity and trying to tow a 10k trailer without being overloaded, I can almost guarantee that he's going to fail. He will be overloaded. And whether he's towing one mile or 3,000 miles, on the plains or in the mountains, you don't want him out there driving an overloaded tow vehicle.
Unrealistic assumption. Average tongue weight of a loaded tandem-axle trailer is 13%, and many have up to 15%.
On a tandem-axle flatbed equipment trailer hauling a tractor, you can fine-tune the hitch weight to get 10%, but that requires an hour's worth of time an a good tongue weight scale. Very few owners are willing to spend that much time and effort just to assure they have 10% hitch weight.
So when estimating, use 13% as the probable hitch weight, and don't be surprised if it winds up to be 15%.
With an F-150 that has less than 1,600 pounds payload capacity and trying to tow a 10k trailer without being overloaded, I can almost guarantee that he's going to fail. He will be overloaded. And whether he's towing one mile or 3,000 miles, on the plains or in the mountains, you don't want him out there driving an overloaded tow vehicle.
My father mentioned that he might just leave the bush hog at the property to save weight, though that is only 1000lbs towing and 100lbs tongue, assuming we can get it to 10%. If we are at 10k, I know we can't go over 12.2% on the hitch w/o overloading the hitch. So that would make it 1,220/1527, giving room for old man and WD hitch, assuming he doesn't have a big lunch. We are looking at a 10ft LOA tractor on a 20ft trailer. . With the larger trailer I think we can control the weight on the hitch more so than a travel trailer could by having the tractor further back on the trailer.
Granted I over estimated on the weight, though I am hoping to reduce the weight based off getting more detailed information. If we can get it to 10%, do you still think that Premium is a bad idea, what are your thoughts on the Lariat w/ HD Payload package? From what I see the Lariat is fine, though the Premium is cutting it close on Payload. Both are fine for towing weigh. The other bottle neck we have to worry about is the 1,220lbs on the WD hitch, but if we are able to reduce the weight on the trailer and move the load to get 10%, that becomes a none issue. Is this a correct assumption?
You asked for opinions, here's mine. You can tow that load safely with the right trailer and amount of experience. My main concern is experience. Have you or you dad towed equipment before? Or have you been limited to a 5x8 utility trailer? If you haven't towed equipment, get a bigger truck. It simply gives you a safety cushion that newbies need. That tractor will have to be loaded in the exact same place on the trailer every time you haul it or handling will be significantly effected. That's a lot of weight back there, you will most definitely feel it. You can get that weight down to 8000lbs with this trailer.
It weighs 1700lbs.
Normally I am in complete agreement with smokey. He takes a lot of crap from some pretty arrogant people at times. Yet he never tires of helping people. However on this one I'll will differ. While tongue weight is crucial on a camper, it is less so on an tandem flatbed. They simply aren't as susceptible to sway as a camper is. Don't get me wrong, they will still bite you if you screw up. You just have more room for error with them. If you know what your doing, you'll be fine. If not........... My uncle used to say "when there's nothing in the head, the whole body suffers".
I got more accurate information after doing some calls. The weight as of follows:
Trailer 1900
Kubota 4222 (I think this is wet weight)
Front Loader 1279
Bush Hog 500
Total: 7901
This brings us way south of the 10,000 I was initially fearing, if the old man goes with the more expensive AL trailer. If we go with the the 1700lbs trailer that ambush suggested, then that lowers an additional 200lbs to 7901. Then 7401lbs if he leaves the bush hog at the property. 7500-8000lbs seems a little more reasonable. I am still bias towards the HD Payload Lariat. The only complaint I can see my dad having is the 6.5' vs 5.5' bed. The extra payload capacity would eliminate the need for an extra vehicle, as we could all ride in the cab and give more breathing room in general. From my understanding, the premium has all the Lariat's option including and the biggest difference is the badging and massage seats. I would like him to take a look at a 6.5' Lariat just to compare.
To answer ambush's question, he doesn't have much towing experience.
The HDPP is available on a Lariat only with the base 500A equipment group. Plenty nice, but study the brochure and you'll see lots of luxury features available in the 501A and 502A equipment groups. And HDPP is not available on King Ranch or Platinum trim.
Personally, I would love to have a Lariat with the 500A equipment group and HDPP. But for some folks, doodads are more important than safe towing.
The HDPP is available on a Lariat only with the base 500A equipment group. Plenty nice, but study the brochure and you'll see lots of luxury features available in the 501A and 502A equipment groups. And HDPP is not available on King Ranch or Platinum trim.
Personally, I would love to have a Lariat with the 500A equipment group and HDPP. But for some folks, doodads are more important than safe towing.
I don't think he understands that Lariat can be upgraded with pretty much everything he sees/wants on the Premium, minus the badging and massage seats. Funny thing is the Lariat has better tech as the the 2015 Premium doesn't have Sync 3.
Looks like he is going to go with the Premium, he understands his towing limitations and is willing to leave accessories and go with the lighter trailer to make it within the limits. His best argument was for the smaller bed for better turning radius and it can fit within his garage.
Further more my mom hates pickup trucks and he has always wanted a pickup. He wants to get it before she changes her mind. Now that I have looked for him, I want will and will buy one in the near future.
08-24-2016, 08:28 AM
Numbers correct for Towing under 10,000 LBS?
