ctimrun

One thing you can be certain of when buying a new truck is the payload sticker is the best case scenario payload for that truck. As soon as you start adding accessories (bed cover, hitches, heavier wheels and tires, bedliners/spray in liners, airbags, sway bars, etc etc) this takes away from the payload of the truck.

In my opinion a gear ratio change could be successfully argued that it has effectively changed that specific towing parameter of the truck, but I think the argument would only be valid if you put in a gear ratio that Ford produces and provides weights for.

smurfs_of_war

If I may...

How? How do you know all the wreckage recovered and scaled belonged to the F250? How do you even know if you recovered it all? Or even most of it? Or too much? I know this is not a simple answer, but I would bet that anyone who is legally minded would present you with this exact question.

I am not arguing your statement at all, I am just more curious since what you are saying directly contradicts what a few other enforcement officers on other sites as well as our local MOT officers state. I understand that every jurisdiction/ state/ province is different, but this is the first I have ever seen in all the years online of an actual officer (retired or not) opening up and stating this fact. In fact, on another forum another retired officer flat out said if you are not commercial, we don't care unless it looks like it is handling unsafe. All we care about is what you registered your weight to.

Here for example, if your registration states 15000lbs GCWR, then whether you are over your half tons GVWR or not, you are insured and are perfectly legal. That simple. If you are over your tire rating- they get cranky if they stop you. This I can absolutely verify because my wife has been a commercial and auto broker for more than a decade. I even made a trip to our local MOT scales specifically to ask this and weigh my setup.

The F250 accident you are using as an example is eerily similar to a story that has been floating around the forums for quite a while now. I am not saying yours is not true- not at all, but I am just curious how all of this is achieved.

As a footnote- I don't have a dog in this fight. I tow with a 2500 now and well within weight limits.

ctimrun

No worries. There are a lot of officers who have the attitude, "its only a problem if it appears unsafe", but in my experience this comment is telling of (not necessarily their fault if their department doesn't provide the training) a lack of knowledge, possibly a lack of training, lack of proper equipment, or failure on the officers part to keep up with the ever changing laws to properly do this type of enforcement. Could possibly be a combination of these things.

A lot of agencies including mine have specific officers with the knowledge and training who handle all weight issues commercial or not. If you happen to be talking with one of them I doubt you will get the "it's only a problem if it appears unsafe" line.

Like I mentioned there has been a very big push to enforce these overweight issues especially on large holiday weekends near the popular camping/riding areas in California. Most of the people who frequent the dunes in SoCal (where weight issues are only the beginning) have seen this first hand, maybe even experienced it.

Every different city, county, jurisdiction, even different stations within the same department/agency will have different philosophies and approaches to how enforcement is done. You might have one commercial officer from one station who will stop after putting scales under the tow vehicle where another officer will weigh every axle adding more violations to the citation as they go.

As far as the accident reconstruction, just like any other investigation a determination is made based on witness/suspect statements, the evidence which is collected, and an experts opinion. Definitely not a perfect system, but it's the system used.

I don't spend too much time on Internet forums but am here to figure out why my new F150 doesn't seem to tow as well as my previous one did. I've never seen any stories such as this one on a forum, but I think there should be more examples so people can learn from others mistakes, that is why I put this here. Don't mean to offend anyone or make someone believe or not believe what I am typing, actually didn't put that much thought into it.

Even though I have some knowledge and experience with this kind of thing, I still have a lot to learn about how to make my towing experience a good one when the time comes to get a small camping trailer. Im proud to say I am retiring soon and am hoping to spend my time having fun with my wife.

smokeywren

No, not payload. Tow rating.


Payload is the GVWR of the vehicle minus the weight of the vehicle.


Tow rating is the GCWR of the vehicle minus the weight of the vehicle.


Apples and oranges.


GVWR (and payload) tells you the max weight you can haul on the two axles of the vehicle. That's almost always your limiter as to how much trailer you can tow without being overloaded. Hitch weight, not gross trailer weight, is your concern.


GCWR (and tow rating) tells you the max weight you can pull without overheating anything in the drivetrain, and without being the slowpoke holding up traffic on hills and mountain passes.


My tow rating is 8,400 pounds, but I'm overloaded with my TT that grosses only 4,870 pounds when on the road.


You cannot increase payload with reasonable cost and effort. But you can easily increase tow rating by changing the axle ratio or engine power/torque. But changing the axle ratio or hot-rodding the engine will not gain you any more payload capacity, so it's a waste of money if your goal is to tow a heavier trailer.


Whether your tow rating is 9,600 or 11,000 will not matter if your payload capacity limits you to a trailer tongue weight of 600 pounds, which is a TT that weighs less than5,000 pounds. So you're fighting windmills.

bmach

Thanks smoke, I was just going to post that the op never mentioned anything about payload.

smokeywren

Not in his topic post, but later he made the inaccurate statement that "if 2 identical trucks came from the factory one with 3.55 and one with 3.73 they have different payload."


Axle ratio affects GCWR and tow rating, but not GVWR and payload. The OP seemed to be confused on that point, so I though it best to clarify.

Buy the main point is that the tow rating is severely overstated for most folks that want to tow a trailer without being overloaded. So whether the tow rating is 7,000 or 9,600 or 11.100 doesn't matter if the payload rating will not support the hitch weight of even a 6,000-pound trailer without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle. The manufacturers don't emphise that point, so Platinum owners don't realize they cannot tow a trailer that weighs more than about 5,000 pounds without being overloaded when hauling a normal family and gear in the tow vehicle.

atwowheelguy

What is the payload on the truck? You may be surprised at how low it is on a Platinum.

The payload sticker is on the driver's door.

pnc316

First, thank you for your service. I am so very glad I saw this post. May very well save a life, or my license and freedom.

pnc316

Weenie Move :-)

henfield

I really like @ctimrun informative post. One thing to add to that is the policing of commercial operations is far greater than people towing for personal use.

Spending the $12 to scale your truck is very educational and hopefully results in a safer combination.

I'm glad I've scaled. It encouraged me to shed weight, with a lighter trailer and taking less stuff. My GCWR is 14,800. First scale was 12,160. Next trip, no scale but with wife (?in tow), was undoubtedly heavier. Now I have shed weight and the next scaled tow (just me) the GCWR was 10,840. That number didn't include me and was 20 gallons of fuel lighter so call it 11,200lbs for an apples to apples to the first scale.