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There is a standard but the manufacturers have not and do not have to comply with it. Note that the manufactures are quick to point out that tow ratings are based more on marketing and customer opinion than testing. See F150 with 5.0 and 3.55 gears vs 3.73 gears. The disparity is totally absurd and is not justified.
Incorrect. I have the 3.55 with the 9.75 differential. I believe this was standard on all super crew with the 6.5' box.
Please see my reference. Not all trucks are being tested to this standard with Ford and GM being the holdouts in their respective SUV line.
Nissan is not complying with this standard proving that the standard is optional. I see this standard as being abandoned as Nissan publishes ever increasing numbers.
I had an older 3500 series diesel dually (2002) and as I remember it was bumper rated at about 12,500 lb pull with a payload of 4000 lb (camper pack). After driving numerous F150's I can confidently say that even though the 3500 was an older truck and lacked modern technology it would easily pull the axles right out from under any F150. Please excuse me if I call B.S. on any F150 rated at 11,000lb pull no mater how much technology you throw at it or whatever standard that you hold it to.
Please understand that I am not trying to argue or start a 'fight' but instead I am sharing in my research and my experience.
Incorrect. I have the 3.55 with the 9.75 differential. I believe this was standard on all super crew with the 6.5' box.
Was not aware of that. 5.0 SCrews with the short bed and 3.55's get the 8.8 and its rated to tow the same. Guess there goes that theory (and puts me back into the marketing side...they can publish numbers lower than the test results and by having the 3.55's barely above the 3.31's maybe they can push more people to the 3.31's (see, the difference is very small) while only the people who plan on towing heavy and know what they want will go for the 3.73's?)).
Incorrect. I have the 3.55 with the 9.75 differential. I believe this was standard on all super crew with the 6.5' box.
Please see my reference. Not all trucks are being tested to this standard with Ford and GM being the holdouts in their respective SUV line.
Nissan is not complying with this standard proving that the standard is optional. I see this standard as being abandoned as Nissan publishes ever increasing numbers.
I had an older 3500 series diesel dually (2002) and as I remember it was bumper rated at about 12,500 lb pull with a payload of 4000 lb (camper pack). After driving numerous F150's I can confidently say that even though the 3500 was an older truck and lacked modern technology it would easily pull the axles right out from under any F150. Please excuse me if I call B.S. on any F150 rated at 11,000lb pull no mater how much technology you throw at it or whatever standard that you hold it to.
Please understand that I am not trying to argue or start a 'fight' but instead I am sharing in my research and my experience.
I had a 99 F350 Dually Diesel, and my 14 EB does have the grunt of that Diesel, but not the mass, and thats where the 3500 of yours would shine as well. The F150's can pull 11,000# with ease, but not as comfortably as the massive 1 tons can. That little Ecoboost has a lot of power, in some ways more than the 7.3 Powerstroke did, but the truck itself is too light for any real towing of that weight.
If you are going to be doing a lot of heavy towing, getting a 1 ton is the way to go, but if its a daily driver with occasional towing, nothing at all wrong with an F150 as long as you tow what the truck is rated at and not more.
Please excuse me if I call B.S. on any F150 rated at 11,000lb pull no mater how much technology you throw at it or whatever standard that you hold it to.
Please understand that I am not trying to argue or start a 'fight' but instead I am sharing in my research and my experience.
Well you can call BS all you want but they are rated for that.
However, as comes up often, the limiting factor is the payload. In actuality you could not support the payload required for the tongue weight of the 11000# trailer.
What you can do is tow an 11000# trailer that has an axle in the front, like a farm wagon, or with a weight carrying device like a Toad
So you can call BS but you would be incorrect. The fact is that many F150s are rated to tow 11000#. The reality is there are many limiting factors associated with that rating. It is nonetheless rated as such.
Is that rating reasonable given the payload issue, I would argue no.
Let's go with your logic that manufacturers are right and I am wrong. Here we go;
An F150 rated to tow 11,000 lbs has a rev limiter of 100 mph. By your definition (manufactures know best) this is perfectly safe because it does not say that you cannot. Not only that but by your definition (manufacturer know best) the brakes on the F150 will safely and repeatedly perform emergency stops from max speed and max load because know where does it say that you cannot. Also, by your logic (manufactures know best) you can tow max weight at max speeds on a daily basis since the manufacturers do not state 'once in a while'. A dually diesel will do all this and more on a daily basis and will give you the stability and security that only a vehicle of this size can deliver.
I never said the F150 wasn't a well made and capable vehicle I just called B.S. on the outrageous tow ratings.
Try pulling 11,000 pounds with a big diesel dually, even a 10 year old one, and than try pulling it with an F150. No comparison. And the last time I checked no one pulls 11,000 lbs down a drag strip so lets all give up on the whole ecoboost vs the world routine.
I'm curious as to where trailer brakes factor in to the equation? What I mean is, towing 6k with no trailer brakes is different than towing 8k with trailer brakes, so how do they account for that in their ratings?
Is the maximum tow rating of a truck based on a trailer with brakes and if not how does a trailer with brakes effect the real world ability to tow?
It's interesting how manufacturers choose whether to adhere to a standard or not. Reading that article, (thanks for posting) it's impressive that Toyota jumped right on board with the standard.
The thing about questioning the numbers is that it's a slippery slope, right? Because you can't cherry pick the numbers you want to "believe" and then at the same time question the validity of others. After all, like the article pointed out, many of us are swayed by the towing and payload numbers.
I'm never going to tow the maximum anyway, so I'll move up to a different platform if my towing needs change.
Well you can call BS all you want but they are rated for that.
However, as comes up often, the limiting factor is the payload. In actuality you could not support the payload required for the tongue weight of the 11000# trailer.
What you can do is tow an 11000# trailer that has an axle in the front, like a farm wagon, or with a weight carrying device like a Toad
So you can call BS but you would be incorrect. The fact is that many F150s are rated to tow 11000#. The reality is there are many limiting factors associated with that rating. It is nonetheless rated as such.
Is that rating reasonable given the payload issue, I would argue no.
A boat would have a much lower tongue weight and could easily fall into a range where the payload is not an issue...but even with a travel trailer, 13% of 11,000 is 1430. That's not necessarily a payload issue. Plenty of trucks have a payload that is 1800lb+. It could be a hitch issue however. Not sure what the mat rating is with a WDH (but still, an 11000lb boat trailer might only have a tongue weight of 5-600lb.) And yeah, the toad would be a great option and I'm pretty sure a few people here have them.
Originally Posted by Boulevard
Let's go with your logic that manufacturers are right and I am wrong.
They are correct. We can stop right here because the rest of your post is nonsense.
Originally Posted by BACK2GAS
I'm curious as to where trailer brakes factor in to the equation? What I mean is, towing 6k with no trailer brakes is different than towing 8k with trailer brakes, so how do they account for that in their ratings?
Is the maximum tow rating of a truck based on a trailer with brakes and if not how does a trailer with brakes effect the real world ability to tow?
Ford wants a trailer to have separate brakes for any trailer over 1500lb. This is in the owners manual that most people never read. Many states want trailer brakes on any trailer above 2000lb. Either way, the truck brakes are designed to stop the truck at GVWR, not the truck and trailer at GCWR.
I'm curious as to where trailer brakes factor in to the equation? What I mean is, towing 6k with no trailer brakes is different than towing 8k with trailer brakes, so how do they account for that in their ratings?
Is the maximum tow rating of a truck based on a trailer with brakes and if not how does a trailer with brakes effect the real world ability to tow?
GVWR of the tow vehicle indicates the maximum weight on the axles of the tow vehicle, including hitch weight of any trailer. The tow vehicle is designed with enough braking power to stop the tow vehicle loaded up to the GVWR of the tow vehicle, but not more. So if the gross combined weight (GCW) of your rig is more than the GVWR of the tow vehicle, then you need trailer brakes.
GCWR (and tow rating) computations require that the GVWR of the tow vehicle not be exceeded. (Don't confuse GVWR and GCWR. GVWR is the max weight the tow vehicle can carry on the axles of the tow vehicle. GCWR is the max weight the drivetrain can pull without overheating anything in the drivetrain and without being the slowpoke holding up traffic on steep grades.)
So the applicable saying is that the brakes on the tow vehicle are designed to stop the tow vehicle, and the trailer bakes are designed to stop the trailer. Neither one is designed to stop the combined weight of tow vehicle and trailer.
So with a tandem axle RV or cargo trailer, if you don't exceed the GVWR and payload capacity of the tow vehicle, then you probably won't exceed the GCWR and tow rating either. But those rules include the assumption that your hitch weight does not exceed the weight limits of the hitch.
11-30-2016, 08:37 AM
