Helper bags should be standard.
03-23-2014, 08:56 PM
#21
My guess is that the OP probably gets rid of whatever "tow vehicle" he's using with nothing but airbags once he starts getting that "tick, tick, tick" from the wheel bearings going out.
I have to ask the OP if he's willing to contribute an intelligent answer, what is your objection to using a WDH or buying a truck that is properly equipped to handle the weight? Obviously with the kinds of trailers you've pulled, a WDH is not going to "cause more problems than it solves". If you're spending $500 on airbags, a good WDH like an Equalizer can be had for $200 or so more, so I don't understand why you are so hell bent on not running one?
I have to ask the OP if he's willing to contribute an intelligent answer, what is your objection to using a WDH or buying a truck that is properly equipped to handle the weight? Obviously with the kinds of trailers you've pulled, a WDH is not going to "cause more problems than it solves". If you're spending $500 on airbags, a good WDH like an Equalizer can be had for $200 or so more, so I don't understand why you are so hell bent on not running one?
03-24-2014, 08:41 AM
#22
I have been doing a lot of reading and research to educate myself fully on this subject.
The only proof I could find on a WDH is this thread.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f45/weigh...rv-118771.html
WDH added 240 lbs. to the front axle. That is 120 per tire. If that is the different between crashing or not you have bigger problems!
I couldn't find any similar scaling done before and after air bags. But I would be willing to be that the front axle will show at least half of that same 120 of extra weight due to the being level and the trailer not lifting the front axle.
byoungblood-
I would take air bags any day of a WDH for a few reasons. They work is #1 and are much more versatile. Your WDH does nothing for a load in the bed of the truck(empty of trailer for sure at least). Not to mention if you do the nice set up for $500 or so then you can also air up tires, rafts, or anything else that needs air in a flash! The nicer compressor would fill a truck tire from flat to 80 psi in 2 minutes or less. Try inflating the kids raft with a you WDH, haha.
Secondly while I understand the WDH takes some of the load of the factory springs but as you drive down the road the up and down of the trailer is still putting a big portion of the extra weight on the springs causing them to be worked very hard and with time they will probably still sag. The bags take much of that load and you should never have any spring sag no matter your load.
The only reason I got rid of my Tahoe was due to the $400 a month payment and I bought cash an "01 Denali(same truck just 5 years older). Didn't have any issues with any rear axle wheel bearings.
Trust me the recommended weights aren't because of the axle! Hell they have little to do with anything but the springs. With trailer brakes and air bags an f-150 could haul twice it's factory rating every day for 5 years and 99 out of 100 times it won't have any issues.(remember I hate ford and still willing to admit this) I see it all the time construction companies pulling big heavy trailers every day and overloading the **** out of the truck.
I bought my Tahoe to haul the family. I also have **** to do so pulling trailers happens. The big camper was on a wim because they got kicked out of the camp ground, the mini ex was because my friend rented it and his 2001 F-150 couldn't get over 35 mph with it hooked up. If I could find and afford a 2500 suburban I would love one! But they are few and far between. I have 5 kids between myself and my girlfriend so I need seating for at least 7 hence the reason for an SUV.
The only proof I could find on a WDH is this thread.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f45/weigh...rv-118771.html
WDH added 240 lbs. to the front axle. That is 120 per tire. If that is the different between crashing or not you have bigger problems!
I couldn't find any similar scaling done before and after air bags. But I would be willing to be that the front axle will show at least half of that same 120 of extra weight due to the being level and the trailer not lifting the front axle.
byoungblood-
I would take air bags any day of a WDH for a few reasons. They work is #1 and are much more versatile. Your WDH does nothing for a load in the bed of the truck(empty of trailer for sure at least). Not to mention if you do the nice set up for $500 or so then you can also air up tires, rafts, or anything else that needs air in a flash! The nicer compressor would fill a truck tire from flat to 80 psi in 2 minutes or less. Try inflating the kids raft with a you WDH, haha.
Secondly while I understand the WDH takes some of the load of the factory springs but as you drive down the road the up and down of the trailer is still putting a big portion of the extra weight on the springs causing them to be worked very hard and with time they will probably still sag. The bags take much of that load and you should never have any spring sag no matter your load.
The only reason I got rid of my Tahoe was due to the $400 a month payment and I bought cash an "01 Denali(same truck just 5 years older). Didn't have any issues with any rear axle wheel bearings.
Trust me the recommended weights aren't because of the axle! Hell they have little to do with anything but the springs. With trailer brakes and air bags an f-150 could haul twice it's factory rating every day for 5 years and 99 out of 100 times it won't have any issues.(remember I hate ford and still willing to admit this) I see it all the time construction companies pulling big heavy trailers every day and overloading the **** out of the truck.
I bought my Tahoe to haul the family. I also have **** to do so pulling trailers happens. The big camper was on a wim because they got kicked out of the camp ground, the mini ex was because my friend rented it and his 2001 F-150 couldn't get over 35 mph with it hooked up. If I could find and afford a 2500 suburban I would love one! But they are few and far between. I have 5 kids between myself and my girlfriend so I need seating for at least 7 hence the reason for an SUV.
Last edited by custm2500; 03-24-2014 at 08:43 AM.
03-24-2014, 09:06 AM
#23
Senior Member
I have been doing a lot of reading and research to educate myself fully on this subject.
The only proof I could find on a WDH is this thread.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f45/weigh...rv-118771.html
WDH added 240 lbs. to the front axle. That is 120 per tire. If that is the different between crashing or not you have bigger problems!
I couldn't find any similar scaling done before and after air bags. But I would be willing to be that the front axle will show at least half of that same 120 of extra weight due to the being level and the trailer not lifting the front axle.
The only proof I could find on a WDH is this thread.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f45/weigh...rv-118771.html
WDH added 240 lbs. to the front axle. That is 120 per tire. If that is the different between crashing or not you have bigger problems!
I couldn't find any similar scaling done before and after air bags. But I would be willing to be that the front axle will show at least half of that same 120 of extra weight due to the being level and the trailer not lifting the front axle.
And, if you read the instructions for selecting a proper WDH, you do in fact include all weight in the bed that is located behind the rear axle.
Having people like you on the road is one of the things that worries me because I have no control over your jackassery and you could wind up maiming or killing my family because of your ignorance.
03-24-2014, 09:15 AM
#24
Senior Member
I too would like to see some scale results using adjustable Air Bags only.
But I predict you will see little or no difference in axle weights after you inflate the bags.
There are many reported scale results for WDH, here and elsewhere. Last time I weighed, the trailer lifted 380# off the front axle, without the WDH engaged. This is over 12% of the front axle's normal weight. I've got RAS on the rear, so sag wasn't a problem.
The objective is to tighten up the WDH to return all (Ford says 50%) of that 380# back onto the front axle. It will also put some weight back on the trailer axles, further reducing the truck's rear axle load, which in my case is right at its GAWR.
Many years ago I overloaded my truck's rear axle and added an extra leaf to remove sag. Worked fine for a while, until the bearing went and the right-hand wheel/axle assembly pulled out of the housing. Luckily I was in town, driving at low speeds and was flagged down by a pedestrian. I don't do that anymore and the WDH helps.
But I predict you will see little or no difference in axle weights after you inflate the bags.
There are many reported scale results for WDH, here and elsewhere. Last time I weighed, the trailer lifted 380# off the front axle, without the WDH engaged. This is over 12% of the front axle's normal weight. I've got RAS on the rear, so sag wasn't a problem.
The objective is to tighten up the WDH to return all (Ford says 50%) of that 380# back onto the front axle. It will also put some weight back on the trailer axles, further reducing the truck's rear axle load, which in my case is right at its GAWR.
Many years ago I overloaded my truck's rear axle and added an extra leaf to remove sag. Worked fine for a while, until the bearing went and the right-hand wheel/axle assembly pulled out of the housing. Luckily I was in town, driving at low speeds and was flagged down by a pedestrian. I don't do that anymore and the WDH helps.
03-24-2014, 09:15 AM
#25
I have a full grasp of physics. Your rear axle is the fulcrum of the trailer weight and front half of the truck. But by raising the rear of the truck the trailer doesn't have the same leverage as it does with it sagging below the axle. Also with the truck level it doesn't add weight to the rear axle of the truck. With the truck level all of the static wright of the truck is on the front tires.
I haven't put the air bags on my Denali yet but as soon as I do I will scale the truck with it squatting and sitting level then see what kind of front axle weight I have.
I haven't put the air bags on my Denali yet but as soon as I do I will scale the truck with it squatting and sitting level then see what kind of front axle weight I have.
03-24-2014, 09:26 AM
#26
Senior Member
I have a full grasp of physics. Your rear axle is the fulcrum of the trailer weight and front half of the truck. But by raising the rear of the truck the trailer doesn't have the same leverage as it does with it sagging below the axle.
The change in leverage is very small. You sag only a few inches relative to the wheelbase of the truck
Also with the truck level it doesn't add weight to the rear axle of the truck. With the truck level all of the static wright of the truck is on the front tires.
No. Think of a schoolyard teeter-totter. Weight on one end is still balancing weight on the other when it is level. All that weight is on the fulcrum or rear axle.
I haven't put the air bags on my Denali yet but as soon as I do I will scale the truck with it squatting and sitting level then see what kind of front axle weight I have.
The change in leverage is very small. You sag only a few inches relative to the wheelbase of the truck
Also with the truck level it doesn't add weight to the rear axle of the truck. With the truck level all of the static wright of the truck is on the front tires.
No. Think of a schoolyard teeter-totter. Weight on one end is still balancing weight on the other when it is level. All that weight is on the fulcrum or rear axle.
I haven't put the air bags on my Denali yet but as soon as I do I will scale the truck with it squatting and sitting level then see what kind of front axle weight I have.
That would be great.
03-24-2014, 09:27 AM
#27
??? Sorry, but what? Any weight on the hitch, without WD, goes on the rear axle. I doubt that is completely true, some may get to the front axle, but it wont' be much.
03-24-2014, 09:39 AM
#28
2011 Lariat Screw EB
Your rear axle becomes the fulcrum point with a WDH hitch, lessening the hitch being the pivot point.
Took this from an RV site:
Weight Distributing Hitches use the fulcrum and lever principle to transfer tongue weight back to the trailer axles and forward to the front axles of the tow vehicle. Properly installed and adjusted, this will level out both the trailer and tow vehicle. It will also correct the imbalance of weight ratio between the front and rear axles of the TV caused by the extra weight of the trailer tongue on the rear of the TV.
http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/gr...stribution.jpg
Air bags simply raise the rear end of the tow vehicle. There is neither lever nor fulcrum to transfer weight forward or backward. They will level out the tow vehicle, but the weight remains where ever it is.
Air bags can not improve the weight carrying capacity of a truck because they do not bolster springs, axles, frames, wheels or tires. All they do is raise or lower the rear of the truck in relation to the ground.
The best demonstration of this I have ever seen was back in the late 60's when they installed a WDH on an Oldsmobile Tornado, then removed the rear wheels and the WDH held the rear of the car in the air.
Took this from an RV site:
Weight Distributing Hitches use the fulcrum and lever principle to transfer tongue weight back to the trailer axles and forward to the front axles of the tow vehicle. Properly installed and adjusted, this will level out both the trailer and tow vehicle. It will also correct the imbalance of weight ratio between the front and rear axles of the TV caused by the extra weight of the trailer tongue on the rear of the TV.
http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/gr...stribution.jpg
Air bags simply raise the rear end of the tow vehicle. There is neither lever nor fulcrum to transfer weight forward or backward. They will level out the tow vehicle, but the weight remains where ever it is.
Air bags can not improve the weight carrying capacity of a truck because they do not bolster springs, axles, frames, wheels or tires. All they do is raise or lower the rear of the truck in relation to the ground.
The best demonstration of this I have ever seen was back in the late 60's when they installed a WDH on an Oldsmobile Tornado, then removed the rear wheels and the WDH held the rear of the car in the air.
Last edited by murf; 03-24-2014 at 10:14 AM.
03-24-2014, 12:24 PM
#30