timtrace

Can someone help me understand the things to watch for when tilting the head and forcing the spring bars to work harder?

I need to know about angle of the bars to the ground and the trailer frame; about how much load the bars can take; about the effectiveness of the strategy, etc.

Just hearing some of your experiences would be great.

11screw50

I don't think you can make it work without moving or removing weight from the trailer.

For 2011-2014, Ford recommends measuring the front fender height without the trailer connected and again with it connected then using the WDH to return the front to a measurement that is halfway between the two (should return half the weight removed when hooking up the trailer). You're already returning 380# of the 560# removed from the front axle (close to 2/3) so shifting more weight to the front is not the correct plan.

Also, based on the scale sheets, your truck weight with no trailer is 6240#, truck with trailer, no WDH is 7640# so your tongue weight is 1400#.

Ricktwuhk

In addition to the tongue weight appearing different than your scale, you seem to have 480 pounds in the truck. Subtracting yourself, there appears to be 255 pounds of weight you can remove from the truck.

And it appears you have no more Payload to use up, you're in fact over.

7,200 - 6,240 = 960. Or am I seeing something wrong?

smokeywren

Something is wrong with your TW scale. Your GVW with the trailer but without the WD spring bars is 7640. Without the trailer your GVW is 6240. The difference is 1,400 hitch weight. (GVW = the combined weight on the two axles of the tow vehicle.)


12,900 without the WD minus 6,240 truck alone = 6,660 gross trailer weight. 5260 combined trailer axle weight plus 1,400 hitch weight = 6,660 gross trailer weight. So we're pretty sure your gross trailer weight is 6,660 and your tongue weight is 1,400.


1,400 hitch weight divided by 6,660 gross trailer weight = 21% hitch weight. Way too much hitch weight percent before you hook up to the tow vehicle.


The only way to fix that weight/balance in the trailer without major surgery on the trailer is to move the weight back in the trailer to put more of the weight behind the trailer axles. If that's not practical, then the next step is to relocate the trailer axles further back on the trailer frame.


Relocating the trailer axles farther back on the trailer frame is not a big deal for a decent welding/fabrication shop. But if you don't like that idea, the alternative is to trade for a trailer that's set up for your use,



It stinks for a tag trailer. About right if it were a 5er or a goose.


However, too much tongue weight is only a problem if it causes you to exceed the hitch weight restrictions or the rGAWR or GVWR of the tow vehicle. In your case you're already over the rGAWR so it's a problem.




You have 580 pounds TW on the rear axle, of 1400 TW. That's 41% of TW. Ideal is 50% to 60% TW on the rear axle. So you already have the spring bars too tight (too much TW removed from the rear axle.)


Your goal for your 1,400 pounds of TW is about 700 to 840 pounds of TW on the rear axle, 280 to 350 on the trailer axles, and 280 to 350 on the front axle. Because you're overloaded with that much TW, then you want the minimum of the total TW to remain on the rear axle and the max on the trailer axles. So try to adjust the spring bars to have 700 on the rear axle. Then adjust the angle of the hitch head to get ~350 on the trailer axles and ~350 on the front axle..


You first adjust the spring bars so 50% to 60% of total TW remains on the rear axle. Next you adjust the angle of the hitch head to distribute the 40% to 50% of TW removed from the rear axle to front and trailer axles. You want those percentages moved from the rear axle to the front and trailer axles be close to equal. Your scale numbers show that you moved 380 pounds of TW to the front axle and only 220 pounds to the trailer axles. That's not very equal.

timtrace

THANK YOU SMOKYWREN, 11screw50 and Ricktwuhk!

Payload: I forgot about the anti-sway bar, LoadLifters, stuff under the rear seat, Kicker sub, catch can, underbumper grill, floor mats, tonneau cover, bedliner, etc. I'm sure there's 225# or more to be found when all that stuff is considered.

Tongue weight: I trust CAT Scale's reputation. My little Sherline tongue scale has a 1-year warranty which guarantees accuracy to 3% (expired), and it seems to be broken. 1400# measured on the CAT scale vs 1100# on the Sherline, is more like 20% variance. Disappointing.


Hitch setup:

When setting up the hitch, I followed instructions like these...and here are the measurements I gathered in the process.
http://www.reeseprod.com/content/dow...ion/N26002.pdf


I used five chain links on the snap-ups to obtain the first weigh shown in post that has all my weigh slips.

If Ford wants the WDH adjusted to eliminate 50% of the front end rise, then the first step is to re-weigh with six links instead of five. This will dump more weight on the rear axle, which is already substantially overweight.

It seems there are two ways on the table to resolve the problem. One, repack the trailer and shift a bunch of weight (I'm guessing ~600#) from in front of the axle to behind the axle. This is more daunting than it sounds because everything inside is nearly the same size and weight; shifting it around won't gain much. Stacking some of it might help but again, it's problematic. Are there any free tools on the web which could help me visualize the solution?

The other way to resolve the problem was suggested by smokeywren. Maybe I could have a shop change the location of the trailer axles on the frame so the trailer wheels take more weight. It would involve a little mechanical and electrical work in addition to the welding, but I'm intrigued by the idea. He said to move the axles rearward, but I'm confused --- won't that bump the tongue weight UP instead of down?

Thanks --

timtrace

Confused. Tilting the hitch ball towards the TV causes the TT axles to absorb TW, while tilting the ball away from the TV causes the steer axle to take weight....? Thank you.

smokeywren

Yep, but tongue weight, not tow weight. Senior moment. You want to move weight back and reduce tongue weight, which requires you to move the axle forward. I'm no engineer, so I don't have any idea how far to move the axle, but probably a foot or so - no more than two or three feet on a 14' trailer. If your load is balanced, then you probably want the trailer axles centered on the length of the trailer's bed.

ColbyL

I'd try and double check the Shoreline before calling it bad. Put known weights on it, including yourself, if you can

timtrace

Thanks smokeywren, I went back and edited the last line of post #15 to clarify things.

Senior moment? Hah. No. I appreciate your well-spoken advice.

I found some discussions on the Internet which say axle placement should be 1/2-way back on the bed *plus* X inches, where X is the length of the trailer bed in feet. So for a 14' trailer, you'd place the axle 98" from the front of the bed --- (14*12)/2+14=98.

The first picture in this thread shows that my trailer's leading axle is visually centered on the trailer bed. The trailing axle is immediately behind, which probably puts the halfway point between the axles at ~98" from the front of the bed, or right where it should be if the Internets are to be believed

I'm going to call the manufacturer to see what they think about shifting the axles forward a foot or so. I may even ask if they could do the work for me, as they're only about a 90-minute drive from my front door. They're Doolittle Trailer out of Holts Summit, MO.

I'm trying, really trying, to think outside the box on how to repack the trailer to shift the balance rearward. Thus far all I can think of is to use my e-track load bars to create a false front wall inside the box, then stack some of the equipment at rear of the pack, but given the weight and dimensions of everything, that won't be a user-friendly solution.

PerryB

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