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Old 08-03-2012, 05:51 PM   #11
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Somewhere else someone stated that in order to pull the max numbers and not go over on the tongue weight or rear axle weight a three axle trailer with lower tongue weight might be in order. I have the 5.0 regular cab 8'bed 3.55 ratio tow package but not max tow and my # is 9800 lbs. Pretty sure once you go max tow you loose the 5.0 engine option. I have a flat bed trailer which ford help said to use 10% or close to that tongue wt. Elsewhere on here I read that agreed with that but something like a travel trailer should be more like 12-15% perhaps due to the wind. So the rear axle might end up the limiting factor.

My set up Pulling perhaps 7000 pounds on trailer and 700 in the bed will go down to third perhaps 15 or so times going east-west over the cumberland gap I 68 In Md. It will go quite a bit faster than the slow big rigs and might even do speed limit if I pushed harder on the pedal. Not on the interstate but state road posted at 8% grade it wouldn't pull third but second will get you easily to 45mph which I associate with minimums posted on interstates. Just kind of tell yourself the engine was designed for mustangs cornering so hard the oil wants to go sideways. I think they put the ecoboost in something besides a pick up first too.

Last edited by Franny K; 08-03-2012 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:46 PM   #12
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I did a lot of math before purchasing my truck because I really wanted the 5.0 instead of the EB and I tow about 25-30 times /year. I found that the max numbers that ford publishes are not rear axle limited using a 10% tongue weight but are GCWR limited and only allow for a couple of hundred pounds in the truck. This applies to the EB as well. Using a higher tongue weight than 10% is possible without exceeding either the GVWR, GAWR or the GCWR. That being said, IMHO you should limit yourself to a tow weight of about 500 lbs less than max to give you a realistic number that will keep you legal and insured.

At the 9100 lb max that my truck is rated to tow, if my wife hops into the passenger seat to come along for the ride, we will exceed the GCWR. I only tow 8000 and have lots of room left for stuff before coming close to the numbers.

Maybe someone can enlighten me about something. I really don't see why my truck has a GVWR and GCWR less than an EB with max tow. As far as I can tell the only difference is the engine. Same frame, same suspension, same axle, same transmission etc. The eb with max tow has a higher GVWR which makes no sense at all and a higher GCWR which only makes a little sense (EB has more torque). Is this more of a marketing thing to differentiate the vehicles or am I missing some other limitation of my truck over an EB?
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:41 AM   #13
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My guess is marketing is a factor in these numbers. You do want more torque with higher payloads though ...

IIRC Ford is moving to the SAE standard tow capacity tests in 2013, and I've heard the #'s haven't changed too much. Not sure if the SAE has a standard payload test so don't know what will happen with GVWR and GCWR.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jml79 View Post

Maybe someone can enlighten me about something. I really don't see why my truck has a GVWR and GCWR less than an EB with max tow. As far as I can tell the only difference is the engine. Same frame, same suspension, same axle, same transmission etc. The eb with max tow has a higher GVWR which makes no sense at all and a higher GCWR which only makes a little sense (EB has more torque). Is this more of a marketing thing to differentiate the vehicles or am I missing some other limitation of my truck over an EB?
It is in my estimation more marketing than anything else. I am pretty sure just from memory the max tow does get more tubes in the radiator, a different reciever hitch part number and am kind of less certain about the leaf spring part #. There may be a few other things. If the test is to climb a grade pulling a load in hot conditions and then descend a few times without over heating anything and keeping up a certain speed I see the engine as not the limiting factor. Look at what the smallest Mitsubishi fuso 3 liter diesel claims (20,000) for a gcwr with just 161 hp. http://www.mitfuso.com/en-US/Canter-...k-Models/FE125

In my travels most tandem axle trailers seem to be pulled with dual wheel F-350 class vehicles for what it is worth.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:19 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Franny K View Post
I have the 5.0 regular cab 8'bed 3.55 ratio tow package but not max tow and my # is 9800 lbs.
Thanks for all of your input - it's given me a lot to consider.

This reply from Franny K is the closest to answering my original question.

After looking at the 5.0 regular cab w/ long bed numbers on Ford's towing chart, I have to ask again, is the published information regarging towing limits wrong, or is there something that I'm missing?

The 145" WB regular cab shows a towing limit of 8400 lbs with the 2wd 5.0L and 3.31 final drive, and 9800 lbs with the 3.55. The 145" WB Crew Cab numbers are 8000 lbs for either the 3.31 or the 3.55. The only difference that I see on the towing chart is that the GCWR for the regular cab is 14,900 and the crew cab is 13,500.

So why is the regular cab rated to pull 1400 lbs more with the 3.55 axle, and the crew cab isn't? Springs? Shocks? Frames? The passenger compartment? I would have assumed the underpinnings of the trucks would be similar, if not the same, with only the axles being changed.

What's up with that?
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:53 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Geo4 View Post
...
So why is the regular cab rated to pull 1400 lbs more with the 3.55 axle, and the crew cab isn't? Springs? Shocks? Frames? The passenger compartment? I would have assumed the underpinnings of the trucks would be similar, if not the same, with only the axles being changed.

What's up with that?
There's all sorts of strange #'s in those tables. And I've never heard a good explanation as to why.

Maybe they'll make more sense in 2013 with the SAE testing? Who knows ...
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:42 PM   #17
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When you look at the EB's torque curve, it gives you a long flat high torque at 2400 Rpm's and above. That tells me if I want a heavy hauler or Tow/Haul I want a 4.11 axle to put me right there at interstate speeds. This will leave out all the lower RPM problems and get you right there. It's a truck with room for bigger tires then.

CONVENTIONAL TOWING — MAXIMUM LOADED TRAILER WEIGHT RATINGS
(lbs.)

Regular Cab SuperCab SuperCrew
Axle 126.0" WB 126.0" WB 145.0" WB 145.0" WB 133.0" WB 145.0" WB 145.0" WB 163.0" WB 163.0" WB 145.0" WB 145.0" WB 157.0" WB 157.0" WB
Engine Ratio GCWR 4x2 4x4 4x2 4x4 4x4 4x2 4x4 4x2 4x4 4x2 4x4 4x2 4x4
3.5L Ti-VCT 3.15 14,000 — — 8,800 — — 8,600 — 8,400 — 8,500 — 8,400 —
4-Valve 3.31 14,000 — — — 8,500 — — 8,300 — 8,200 — 8,100 — 8,000
EcoBoost
3.55 15,000 — — 9,800 — — — — — — — — — —
15,200 — — — 9,700 — 9,800 — 9,600 — — — — —
15,300 — — — — — — — — — 9,800 — 9,700 —
15,400 — — — — — — 9,700 — 9,600 — — — —
15,500 — — — — — — — — — — 9,600 — 9,500
3.73 15,200 — — — 9,700 — — — — — — — — —
15,400 — — — — — — 9,700 — 9,600 — — — —
15,500 — — — — — — — — — — 9,600 — 9,500
16,600 — — 11,300
1 — — — — — — — — — —
16,900 — — — — — 11,300
2 — — — 11,3002 — — —
17,000 — — — — — — — — — — — 11,300
2
17,100 — — — 11,300
1 — — 11,3002 11,3003 11,1003 — 11,2002 11,3001 11,1003

4.10 17,100 — — — — — — 11,3002 — 11,1002 — 11,2002 — 11,1002
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Last edited by papa tiger; 08-06-2012 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:54 PM   #18
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When I was looking for the 2012 spec's I chatted w/ Ford about the Tow and Max Tow packages w/ the EB.
I was told the standard tow package used a 41-tube radiator and the Max package used a 51-tube one (basically an extra row of tubes.)
A 145" EB scab is rated the same with the standard tow package and either the 3.55's or 3.73 rear (though I've never seen a 3.73 truck w/o the Max tow package.) When you go to the Max tow package the 3.73's are mandatory. My gut feel is the only difference between the 3.73 tow packages (std and max) is the radiator.
My EB scab has the 3.55's, tows the 5000# camper real nice. Now my wife wants a bigger trailer. It's a vicious cycle I tell 'ya - bigger truck, bigger trailer - bigger trailer, bigger truck.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbopp
It's a vicious cycle I tell 'ya - bigger truck, bigger trailer - bigger trailer, bigger truck.
Kind of a nice problem to have!
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:19 AM   #20
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My gut feel is the only difference between the 3.73 tow packages (std and max) is the radiator.
..................Per the Order Guide, the max tow pkg includes the telescoping trailer tow mirrors that are not available from the factory without the max tow pkg. ....................The max tow pkg also includes the integrated trailer brake controller, but that's optional without the max tow pkg................And the big thing that's included in the max tow pkg but not otherwise available is the extra 500 pounds GVWR. My 2012 F-150 Lariat SuperCrew with the regular tow pkg is overloaded 100 pounds over the GVWR of the truck with my TT which grosses only 5,000 pounds with 650 pounds hitch weight. With the max tow pkg, I'd have 400 pounds more hitch weight capacity before I was overloaded. ...................I don't understand why Ford won't sell you the trailer tow mirrors without the max tow pkg, which requires the EcoBoost engine. I guess they think that if you are going to tow a TT you should have the 3.73 rear end with the EcoBoost engine, along with the max tow pkg. ............................ In my case, I was stubborn and ordered the truck with 3.15 rear axle and regular tow pkg. I bought the tow mirrors from Ford Accessories Catalog and installed them myself. It's suicide to tow a TT with the regular mirrors. ......................BTW, with my 3.15 axle, EcoBoost engine, integrated brake controller, Reese Strait-Line dual-cam hitch, and tow mirrors, my 5,000-pound TT follows along nicely. I've towed it over 4,000 miles so far, including the Hill Country of Texas and the so-called mountains of eastern Tennessee with no problems. Leaving Thursday for another 800-mile round trip through the Hill Country..............note that the website editor is screwed up today. When I save a post, it deletes all the carriage returns and makes just one long run-on paragraph. Thus the funny formatting above trying to indicate paragraphs.
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Last edited by smokeywren; 08-07-2012 at 10:38 AM.
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