Harm in hitting GCWR/tow limit - How to mitigate damage
03-17-2016, 06:43 PM
#51
The Bumper and hitch that they say is upgrade is also BS. The bumper is exact same and the mounting for the hitch is exactly the same. The hitch its self has two round supports welded on the inside bracket, thats the only difference. The Part numbers are exactly the same with the last letter being the only exception, B vs E. Due to these welded supports the tongue weight is increased from 1050 to 1150 and trailer weight is increased from 10500 to 11500 but without weight distribution its exactly the same 500/5000.
The only other difference I was able to find is the steering ratio 17.0.1 vs 20.0.1. Thats it.
...
Given all this info, my truck has a 7350 GVWR as apposed to Max tow of 7700
...
All the info is documented, so basically ford is telling me that my truck because of two small welded brakes on the hitch and difference in steering ratio has a drop of 350 pounds GVWR?
The only other difference I was able to find is the steering ratio 17.0.1 vs 20.0.1. Thats it.
...
Given all this info, my truck has a 7350 GVWR as apposed to Max tow of 7700
...
All the info is documented, so basically ford is telling me that my truck because of two small welded brakes on the hitch and difference in steering ratio has a drop of 350 pounds GVWR?
The issue that I have is that you are unlikely to know what the real difference is without discussing it directly with the engineer who did the analysis, or someone who has direct access to the analysis.
I will tell you this. As someone who has been on the inside in terms of design and implementation of complex systems, it isn't always obvious to someone on the outside or even many of the people peripherally involved as to what makes the limits of something different. Your right, this may just be a product placement and marketing thing (for profit maximization). Or it may be more than that. The question is, how much risk is there in what you think you know vs what you really know about the true limit?
I would be asking myself, if it was just the round supports welded there, why go through all that effort to do that if it was meaningless? I might, like you, come to the same conclusion, but sure as s__t I would ask myself that question a number of times before I decided...FWIW.
The following users liked this post:
Velosprout (03-17-2016)
03-17-2016, 11:53 PM
#52
I have spent a lot of time in the sourcebook for the 2013 models and Shaggy is correct that the 9.75 axles are rated for much more than listed. The spring packs and wheels are the weak link. While I don't really need it, I may replace my springs with the 4800lb rated ones. It won't change the listed ratings but will certainly improve the truck. The info is all there you just have to look for it. For instance the RBM(the true measure of frame strength used by HD truck builders and converters) of the 145wb scab and screw frames is actually higher than the HD frames for the 11 to 13 trucks.
03-18-2016, 12:02 AM
#53
Senior Member
There is some good info in this thread but what's the point? its obviously marking plays into how trucks are packaged and rated. Why is the 2.7 limited to 8k towing? Why is the 5.0 rated so high? Manufactures are going to guide you into a product makes them the most money while satisfying the customer.
Look at the Titian XD. It's really a 3/4 ton truck marketed as a 1/2 ton and artificially limiting its payload by not rating it past 8500 GVWR.
It's a free society but the laws and rules are there too keep the majority safe. And if you exceed them your either a idiot or clever. When the accident happens I'm sure no one will care about your research.
Look at the Titian XD. It's really a 3/4 ton truck marketed as a 1/2 ton and artificially limiting its payload by not rating it past 8500 GVWR.
It's a free society but the laws and rules are there too keep the majority safe. And if you exceed them your either a idiot or clever. When the accident happens I'm sure no one will care about your research.
Last edited by Jason_Larsen; 03-18-2016 at 12:06 AM.
03-18-2016, 12:08 AM
#54
Been arguing that for a long time, the 5.0 is clearly stronger than the 10 5.4s and is rated much lower. They would not have sold any ecos at the higher cost with a v8 rated for the same weights. They purposely sandbagged the 5.0s especially the crew and supercab 4x4 trucks.
03-18-2016, 01:12 AM
#55
I have spent a lot of time in the sourcebook for the 2013 models and Shaggy is correct that the 9.75 axles are rated for much more than listed. The spring packs and wheels are the weak link. While I don't really need it, I may replace my springs with the 4800lb rated ones. It won't change the listed ratings but will certainly improve the truck. The info is all there you just have to look for it. For instance the RBM(the true measure of frame strength used by HD truck builders and converters) of the 145wb scab and screw frames is actually higher than the HD frames for the 11 to 13 trucks.
03-18-2016, 01:30 AM
#56
I won't pretend to know more about this than you do. I don't, especially as you are the one who did the research. However, you have a bunch of posts where you say things are the same, yet you point out here that they aren't the same. What you are arguing is that the differences aren't material to the "true" GVWR.
The issue that I have is that you are unlikely to know what the real difference is without discussing it directly with the engineer who did the analysis, or someone who has direct access to the analysis.
I will tell you this. As someone who has been on the inside in terms of design and implementation of complex systems, it isn't always obvious to someone on the outside or even many of the people peripherally involved as to what makes the limits of something different. Your right, this may just be a product placement and marketing thing (for profit maximization). Or it may be more than that. The question is, how much risk is there in what you think you know vs what you really know about the true limit?
I would be asking myself, if it was just the round supports welded there, why go through all that effort to do that if it was meaningless? I might, like you, come to the same conclusion, but sure as s__t I would ask myself that question a number of times before I decided...FWIW.
The issue that I have is that you are unlikely to know what the real difference is without discussing it directly with the engineer who did the analysis, or someone who has direct access to the analysis.
I will tell you this. As someone who has been on the inside in terms of design and implementation of complex systems, it isn't always obvious to someone on the outside or even many of the people peripherally involved as to what makes the limits of something different. Your right, this may just be a product placement and marketing thing (for profit maximization). Or it may be more than that. The question is, how much risk is there in what you think you know vs what you really know about the true limit?
I would be asking myself, if it was just the round supports welded there, why go through all that effort to do that if it was meaningless? I might, like you, come to the same conclusion, but sure as s__t I would ask myself that question a number of times before I decided...FWIW.
Last edited by Shaggy1970; 03-18-2016 at 01:39 AM.