Can a 2012 F150 pull a 9700# fifth wheel toy hauler
01-12-2013, 10:31 AM
#11
You are grossly overweight with that setup. It has a dry hitch weight of 2040#, which combined with the hitch, even puts it out of the realm of reality with the HD payload package.
By the time you have the trailer loaded up, I'm guessing that pin weight is going to be around 2300-2500#, plus your 200# hitch, is squarely in F250 diesel territory.
Both the RV and truck dealer's job is to sell. They'll look at the weight of that trailer, see that it is lower than the advertised 11,300# towing capacity, and say you are good to go. Both completely neglected to see you only have the standard tow package, which is good up to 9,700#, and both obviously neglected the payload rating of the truck, which would be adequate for pulling my 25' TT, but not much more.
So yes, either the trailer or the truck is going to have to be replaced. There is simply no safe way to tow that trailer with any F150, regardless of how it is configured.
By the time you have the trailer loaded up, I'm guessing that pin weight is going to be around 2300-2500#, plus your 200# hitch, is squarely in F250 diesel territory.
Both the RV and truck dealer's job is to sell. They'll look at the weight of that trailer, see that it is lower than the advertised 11,300# towing capacity, and say you are good to go. Both completely neglected to see you only have the standard tow package, which is good up to 9,700#, and both obviously neglected the payload rating of the truck, which would be adequate for pulling my 25' TT, but not much more.
So yes, either the trailer or the truck is going to have to be replaced. There is simply no safe way to tow that trailer with any F150, regardless of how it is configured.
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2012f150fan (01-12-2013)
01-12-2013, 10:58 AM
#12
Grumpy Old Man
What he said.
Your tow vehicle is a 2012 F-150 EcoBoost 4x4 SuperCab with the regular tow pkg. I cannot read the rear axle ratio, but I'll bet it's 3.31. If that's right, then your GCWR is 15,300 and your "tow rating" is 9100. The tow rating assumes the weight of your wet and loaded F-150 with driver, cargo and hitch but no trailer is 6,200 pounds. If your actual F-150 weighs more than that, then the tow rating gets reduced.
Your GVWR is 7,200, which severely limits hitch weight.
Those numbers mean that the most trailer you could "pull" without being overloaded would not gross more than about 9,000 pounds when wet and loaded for the road. But even then, your pickup would have to have absolutely nothing in it bit a skinny driver.
But the weight you can pull is probably not your limiter. The hitch weight you can "haul" is probably your limiter. Your GVWR is 7,200 pounds, and your truck probably weighs over 6,000 pounds when wet and loaded for the road (including hitch installed). That leaves at most 1,200 pounds for maximum hitch weight. A fifth wheel toy hauler will have at least 17% hitch weight, so 1,200 pounds max hitch weight means a 5er that weighs less than 8,000 pounds.
If your wet and loaded pickup weighs 6,200 pounds as Ford's calculation indicates, then you max hitch weight is only 1,000 pounds without being overloaded.
So your empty 5er toy hauler will severely overload your F-150 over both the GCWR and GVWR of the pickup.
Now assume you will travel extremely light with nothing in the pickup but the hitch and your skinny butt, and almost nothing in the trailer so your pickup weighs 6,000 and your trailer weighs 10,000 per a CAT scale.
So your GCW (gross combined weight) is 16,000. That's more than the 15,300 GCWR of your F-150. Exceeding the GCWR is not a disaster. Your EcoBoost with 3.31 axle will probably pull that load okay, if you stay out of the mountains and big hills so you don't have to climb any mountain passes or long, steep hills. The GCWR is the max weight you can tow without overheating anything in the drivetrain (engine, transmission, rear axle) when driving at a reasonable highway speed up a normal mountain pass on an interstate highway.
Your GVWR is 7,200, and your hitch weight with a properly loaded 10,000-pound 5er will be at least 1,700. That leaves only 5,500 pounds for the max weight of your wet and loaded F-150. Ain't gonna happen, so you'll exceed the GVWR of your F-150. That is not good. The GVWR is the max weight you can have on the 4 tires of your pickup. If you are overloaded over the GVWR of your tow vehicle, your brakes, suspension, frame, and other load-carrying or load-stopping components will be overloaded. Lots of folks get by being overloaded over the GVWR of the F-150, but if you get in an accident and someone gets hurt, your tail is mud. For one thing, when the lawyers get through with you, you will never again be able to afford a new pickup and RV trailer.
If you insisted on towing while exceeding the GVWR of the F-150, one bad thing is the rear end of the pickup will sink down while the front end sticks up. So your headlights will aim at the stars and blind oncoming drivers. You can patch that by installing air bags in the rear suspension. Air bags do NOT increase your weight carrying limits, but they do change the looks of the rig so you're not so obviously overloaded. FireStone RideRite air bags are the most popular for that patch. With air bags pumped up so the truck rides at its normal unloaded stance, you won't look so obviously overloaded. Looking obviously overloaded will get the attention of law enforcement officers (LEOs) in many jurisdictions.
If you were my daughter, what would I tell you? "Dumb move, young lady!" You need either a lot more tow vehicle or a lot less trailer. And that won't be cheap to remedy. Trading pickups to get one that would match that trailer means you need one with a GVWR of at least 10,000 pounds, but probably 11,500 pounds would be better and give you a bit of wiggle room if you some day want to load the trailer to the GVWR of the trailer. So that means as a minimum you need an F-250, or preferably and F-350 SRW (single rear wheels).
Trading trailers might be more do-able. Forget the fifth-wheels, because they have more percentage of hitch weight than travel trailers, and hitch weight is your main problem. For a travel trailer, hitch weight averages around 13%, with many having 15% or more. You'll read that TTs can have a little as 10% hitch weight, but I've never seen one of those rascals. So use 13% for your estimate.
1,200 pounds max hitch weight @ 13% = 9,230 max trailer weight. But again, that means nothing in the truck but a skinny driver, so I'd use 8,500 as your more practical max TT weight. Staying with Forest River Wildwood, they make a TT toy hauler with dry weight of about 6,000 pounds. It would hold a bunch of stuff before you ran into your 8,500 max weight. So I'd start with that one. It's a lot smaller trailer than your 5er, but that's your goal.
http://www.forestriverinc.com/ToyHau...oorplanid=5086
The longer Forest River toy hauler TTs have too much hitch weight, so you'd be back with the same problem as with your 5er. However, any toy hauler TTs usually have more hitch weight when empty than when loaded. Most of the load goes behind the trailer axles, so the teeter-totter effect reduces hitch weight as you load toys into the tail end. You might get by with the model 28SRV which has over 1,200 pounds dry hitch weight. (Notice that the dry hitch weight is 20% of the dry trailer weight.) But by loading all your cargo behind the trailer axles and you might be okay.
http://www.forestriverinc.com/ToyHau...oorplanid=4672
BTW, that max of 1200 pounds hitch weight is a WAG (wild tail guess). 1,000 pounds, or even less, might be a more realistic WAG. To get a better estimate of your actual F-150, load it with everything that will be in it when towing. Including the 5er hitch or ball mount for a TT. Go to a truckstop that has a certified automated truck (CAT) scale and fill up with gas. Then weigh the wet and loaded F-150. Subtract the actual weight from the 7,200 GVWR of your F-150 and the answer is the actual max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded. Divide that max hitch weight by 0.13 for a TT or by 0.17 for a 5er and the answer is a good estimate of the max weight of the trailer you can tow without being overloaded.
Your tow vehicle is a 2012 F-150 EcoBoost 4x4 SuperCab with the regular tow pkg. I cannot read the rear axle ratio, but I'll bet it's 3.31. If that's right, then your GCWR is 15,300 and your "tow rating" is 9100. The tow rating assumes the weight of your wet and loaded F-150 with driver, cargo and hitch but no trailer is 6,200 pounds. If your actual F-150 weighs more than that, then the tow rating gets reduced.
Your GVWR is 7,200, which severely limits hitch weight.
Those numbers mean that the most trailer you could "pull" without being overloaded would not gross more than about 9,000 pounds when wet and loaded for the road. But even then, your pickup would have to have absolutely nothing in it bit a skinny driver.
But the weight you can pull is probably not your limiter. The hitch weight you can "haul" is probably your limiter. Your GVWR is 7,200 pounds, and your truck probably weighs over 6,000 pounds when wet and loaded for the road (including hitch installed). That leaves at most 1,200 pounds for maximum hitch weight. A fifth wheel toy hauler will have at least 17% hitch weight, so 1,200 pounds max hitch weight means a 5er that weighs less than 8,000 pounds.
If your wet and loaded pickup weighs 6,200 pounds as Ford's calculation indicates, then you max hitch weight is only 1,000 pounds without being overloaded.
So your empty 5er toy hauler will severely overload your F-150 over both the GCWR and GVWR of the pickup.
Now assume you will travel extremely light with nothing in the pickup but the hitch and your skinny butt, and almost nothing in the trailer so your pickup weighs 6,000 and your trailer weighs 10,000 per a CAT scale.
So your GCW (gross combined weight) is 16,000. That's more than the 15,300 GCWR of your F-150. Exceeding the GCWR is not a disaster. Your EcoBoost with 3.31 axle will probably pull that load okay, if you stay out of the mountains and big hills so you don't have to climb any mountain passes or long, steep hills. The GCWR is the max weight you can tow without overheating anything in the drivetrain (engine, transmission, rear axle) when driving at a reasonable highway speed up a normal mountain pass on an interstate highway.
Your GVWR is 7,200, and your hitch weight with a properly loaded 10,000-pound 5er will be at least 1,700. That leaves only 5,500 pounds for the max weight of your wet and loaded F-150. Ain't gonna happen, so you'll exceed the GVWR of your F-150. That is not good. The GVWR is the max weight you can have on the 4 tires of your pickup. If you are overloaded over the GVWR of your tow vehicle, your brakes, suspension, frame, and other load-carrying or load-stopping components will be overloaded. Lots of folks get by being overloaded over the GVWR of the F-150, but if you get in an accident and someone gets hurt, your tail is mud. For one thing, when the lawyers get through with you, you will never again be able to afford a new pickup and RV trailer.
If you insisted on towing while exceeding the GVWR of the F-150, one bad thing is the rear end of the pickup will sink down while the front end sticks up. So your headlights will aim at the stars and blind oncoming drivers. You can patch that by installing air bags in the rear suspension. Air bags do NOT increase your weight carrying limits, but they do change the looks of the rig so you're not so obviously overloaded. FireStone RideRite air bags are the most popular for that patch. With air bags pumped up so the truck rides at its normal unloaded stance, you won't look so obviously overloaded. Looking obviously overloaded will get the attention of law enforcement officers (LEOs) in many jurisdictions.
If you were my daughter, what would I tell you? "Dumb move, young lady!" You need either a lot more tow vehicle or a lot less trailer. And that won't be cheap to remedy. Trading pickups to get one that would match that trailer means you need one with a GVWR of at least 10,000 pounds, but probably 11,500 pounds would be better and give you a bit of wiggle room if you some day want to load the trailer to the GVWR of the trailer. So that means as a minimum you need an F-250, or preferably and F-350 SRW (single rear wheels).
Trading trailers might be more do-able. Forget the fifth-wheels, because they have more percentage of hitch weight than travel trailers, and hitch weight is your main problem. For a travel trailer, hitch weight averages around 13%, with many having 15% or more. You'll read that TTs can have a little as 10% hitch weight, but I've never seen one of those rascals. So use 13% for your estimate.
1,200 pounds max hitch weight @ 13% = 9,230 max trailer weight. But again, that means nothing in the truck but a skinny driver, so I'd use 8,500 as your more practical max TT weight. Staying with Forest River Wildwood, they make a TT toy hauler with dry weight of about 6,000 pounds. It would hold a bunch of stuff before you ran into your 8,500 max weight. So I'd start with that one. It's a lot smaller trailer than your 5er, but that's your goal.
http://www.forestriverinc.com/ToyHau...oorplanid=5086
The longer Forest River toy hauler TTs have too much hitch weight, so you'd be back with the same problem as with your 5er. However, any toy hauler TTs usually have more hitch weight when empty than when loaded. Most of the load goes behind the trailer axles, so the teeter-totter effect reduces hitch weight as you load toys into the tail end. You might get by with the model 28SRV which has over 1,200 pounds dry hitch weight. (Notice that the dry hitch weight is 20% of the dry trailer weight.) But by loading all your cargo behind the trailer axles and you might be okay.
http://www.forestriverinc.com/ToyHau...oorplanid=4672
BTW, that max of 1200 pounds hitch weight is a WAG (wild tail guess). 1,000 pounds, or even less, might be a more realistic WAG. To get a better estimate of your actual F-150, load it with everything that will be in it when towing. Including the 5er hitch or ball mount for a TT. Go to a truckstop that has a certified automated truck (CAT) scale and fill up with gas. Then weigh the wet and loaded F-150. Subtract the actual weight from the 7,200 GVWR of your F-150 and the answer is the actual max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded. Divide that max hitch weight by 0.13 for a TT or by 0.17 for a 5er and the answer is a good estimate of the max weight of the trailer you can tow without being overloaded.
Last edited by smokeywren; 01-12-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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2012f150fan (01-12-2013),
Eco_Punisher (04-01-2013)
01-12-2013, 11:00 AM
#13
Senior Member
Not even close to being legal or safe. You need to find a smaller trailer or a super duty. In fact, once loaded, that may exceed the diesel F250 ratings in some trims.
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2012f150fan (01-12-2013)
01-12-2013, 11:31 AM
#14
Senior Member
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2012f150fan (01-12-2013)
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2012f150fan (01-12-2013)
01-12-2013, 06:20 PM
#16
Thanks!
Thanks to everyone for the frank information. Definitely not happy to hear the news but, I totally understand the situation now. Horrible lesson, learned way too late
Now I'll have to figure what to do.....
Now I'll have to figure what to do.....
01-12-2013, 08:18 PM
#18
Senior Member
Find a seasonal site for the 5'r. As long as it isn't 'that' far to the campground you could haul it there in the spring (with that being said it might be wise to find someone to pull it for you). Then give yourself the season to figure it out.