13 fx4 e-force, fox, fuel
04-05-2016, 06:54 PM
#31
Senior Member
-Ok, so my tuner also mentioned water wetter so i ordered some off amazon. I am going to add that. -my intercooler pump is running properly and I have returns to the tank from the intercooler. -i have considered a larger intercooler but have not found one that will fit properly I am offshore right now but I took some notes regarding IAT temps prior to leaving home All of the following was done on a cloudy day at 76° -cold start, on backroad @45mph and 1100rpms my IAT was between 109° an1100rpm -got to the interstate and WOT from 40mph to 135mph my IAT went from 113° to 135°, thats 22° rise in one rolling pull. -next I set cruise on 75mph and the IAT slowly fell to 123° and stayed there. So. As of now I ordered a methanol injection kit as a quick fix and more power, and water wetter to see if that helps. Also I bought a 3-1/4" pulley which is a 1/4" smaller than the one I have now. Ill be getting it re tuned also Thank you for your input. All help is appreciated!
With my background with owning a lifted truck with a lightning motor(6800lbs, 12# boost, 38X15.50 M/Ts) as well as have done tons of mechanical work on L/HDs if I was in your shoes I would do the following.
Intercooler (I/C) is mounted under the blower, the Heat Exchanger (H/E) is mounted behind the grill or bumper opening.
*Move/Relocate the H/E to a location that can get direct air flow. I ran 2-8" SPAL EFans behind mine set up as puller fans that where hooked up to my ignition so whenever the truck was on the fans were on. Getting another H/E and hooking it up inline with the one you have now may also help if you can't find a much larger single one.
*Make sure the water flows from H/E to I/C to Reservoir then back to the H/E.
*Replace the coolant in the I/C system with destilled water & water wetter only! Just remember to drain some and replace with some coolant during the winter months so it doesn't freeze. I'm in New Orleans so I never had to run coolant.
*Larger Reservoir won't make the IATs lower but will take more time to heat up with the more liquid you have.
*Also when you hook up the Methanol Injection (M/I) i suggest you NOT add timing. M/I does two things it increase octane and lowers IATs. Because of this some guys increase the timing to make more power to take advantage of the lower temps and increased octane. The issue with this is that if for some reason if the pump fails or any other parts of the system fails while making a pull it could lead to detonation which can lead to what the L/HD world calls venting the block, which means breaking a rod and it blowing a hole out the side of the block.
*Does the pump come on right away when you crank it or is it set on a thermostat?
*When you said it flows just fine, do you know how fast it should flow? Not doubting your knowledge just trying to help.Iit should have a pretty strong stream, about the same as the kitchen sink.
I have no personal experience but from what I have read the EForce is supposed to have a great design to keep IAT2 temps down so I'm just wondering if something is a little off. If it's still a issue after you make sure everything else is good look up a Killer Chiller. It uses the Freon from your A/C system to cool the water to BELOW ambient temps!
Wayne
04-06-2016, 02:20 AM
#32
Member
Thread Starter
IAT increase of 22* after a WFO pull isn't anything that would throw any alarms in my head. Having charge temps of 20-40* over ambient is about normal for Lightnings(8# boost stock)which is also much lighter in weight than your truck.
With my background with owning a lifted truck with a lightning motor(6800lbs, 12# boost, 38X15.50 M/Ts) as well as have done tons of mechanical work on L/HDs if I was in your shoes I would do the following.
Intercooler (I/C) is mounted under the blower, the Heat Exchanger (H/E) is mounted behind the grill or bumper opening.
*Move/Relocate the H/E to a location that can get direct air flow. I ran 2-8" SPAL EFans behind mine set up as puller fans that where hooked up to my ignition so whenever the truck was on the fans were on. Getting another H/E and hooking it up inline with the one you have now may also help if you can't find a much larger single one.
*Make sure the water flows from H/E to I/C to Reservoir then back to the H/E.
*Replace the coolant in the I/C system with destilled water & water wetter only! Just remember to drain some and replace with some coolant during the winter months so it doesn't freeze. I'm in New Orleans so I never had to run coolant.
*Larger Reservoir won't make the IATs lower but will take more time to heat up with the more liquid you have.
*Also when you hook up the Methanol Injection (M/I) i suggest you NOT add timing. M/I does two things it increase octane and lowers IATs. Because of this some guys increase the timing to make more power to take advantage of the lower temps and increased octane. The issue with this is that if for some reason if the pump fails or any other parts of the system fails while making a pull it could lead to detonation which can lead to what the L/HD world calls venting the block, which means breaking a rod and it blowing a hole out the side of the block.
*Does the pump come on right away when you crank it or is it set on a thermostat?
*When you said it flows just fine, do you know how fast it should flow? Not doubting your knowledge just trying to help.Iit should have a pretty strong stream, about the same as the kitchen sink.
I have no personal experience but from what I have read the EForce is supposed to have a great design to keep IAT2 temps down so I'm just wondering if something is a little off. If it's still a issue after you make sure everything else is good look up a Killer Chiller. It uses the Freon from your A/C system to cool the water to BELOW ambient temps!
Wayne
With my background with owning a lifted truck with a lightning motor(6800lbs, 12# boost, 38X15.50 M/Ts) as well as have done tons of mechanical work on L/HDs if I was in your shoes I would do the following.
Intercooler (I/C) is mounted under the blower, the Heat Exchanger (H/E) is mounted behind the grill or bumper opening.
*Move/Relocate the H/E to a location that can get direct air flow. I ran 2-8" SPAL EFans behind mine set up as puller fans that where hooked up to my ignition so whenever the truck was on the fans were on. Getting another H/E and hooking it up inline with the one you have now may also help if you can't find a much larger single one.
*Make sure the water flows from H/E to I/C to Reservoir then back to the H/E.
*Replace the coolant in the I/C system with destilled water & water wetter only! Just remember to drain some and replace with some coolant during the winter months so it doesn't freeze. I'm in New Orleans so I never had to run coolant.
*Larger Reservoir won't make the IATs lower but will take more time to heat up with the more liquid you have.
*Also when you hook up the Methanol Injection (M/I) i suggest you NOT add timing. M/I does two things it increase octane and lowers IATs. Because of this some guys increase the timing to make more power to take advantage of the lower temps and increased octane. The issue with this is that if for some reason if the pump fails or any other parts of the system fails while making a pull it could lead to detonation which can lead to what the L/HD world calls venting the block, which means breaking a rod and it blowing a hole out the side of the block.
*Does the pump come on right away when you crank it or is it set on a thermostat?
*When you said it flows just fine, do you know how fast it should flow? Not doubting your knowledge just trying to help.Iit should have a pretty strong stream, about the same as the kitchen sink.
I have no personal experience but from what I have read the EForce is supposed to have a great design to keep IAT2 temps down so I'm just wondering if something is a little off. If it's still a issue after you make sure everything else is good look up a Killer Chiller. It uses the Freon from your A/C system to cool the water to BELOW ambient temps!
Wayne
-The I/C pump turns on as soon as the key goes into the ignition.
The h/e mounts about 6" infront of the radiator/condenser and should get direct airflow. I am looking into a different grill to get more airflow.
-The edelbrock installation manual says that coolant should return "briskly" to the tank, which it does.
--suck from bottom of tank, pumped through the h/e, through the I/c and return into the tank. It does return with the consistency of a kitchen sink.
I transfer fluids and treat fluids every day at work so yes I know enough about that lol.
On this particular design the i/c is above the rotors.
I am going to try the water wetter as you mentioned and ill need to measure the h/e to figure out what size fans ill need.
The water/air system appears to be working as it should, i am just concerned that it is not efficient enough, or rather not efficient enough for me.
I get home from work tomorrow and will be installing the meth kit and replacing the fluid with waterwetter/water.
Thank you for your suggestion on the timing. I will discuss the timing issue with my tuner.
Thank you, and if you can think of anything else, im all ears.
04-06-2016, 03:45 AM
#33
Senior Member
They physically be about the rotors but the cool the air AFTER its been compressed, cooling the air before its compressor wouldn't make any since because the air is heated once compressed.
Are you using the factory air box or do you have a open box design? If a open filter design that may be part of your issue as you are pulling warmer air from the engine bay with it verses pulling air from the fender in a closed box design.
It appears that the kit comes with Edelbrocks #15406 Heat Exchanger which is a 22,000 BTU cooler. They make a few larger H/E Edelbrock #15405(31000 BTU) & Edelbrock #15408(55,000 BTU). They may not bolt in directly but im sure with some simple designed brackets you can get one of them to work. Of course the #15408 would be a great upgrade as its 250% larger.
AFCO also makes a very large cooler with dual fans designed for the Raptor but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work on your truck. Just may have to reroute some hoses running to it.
Wayne
04-06-2016, 04:02 AM
#34
Member
Thread Starter
They physically be about the rotors but the cool the air AFTER its been compressed, cooling the air before its compressor wouldn't make any since because the air is heated once compressed.
Are you using the factory air box or do you have a open box design? If a open filter design that may be part of your issue as you are pulling warmer air from the engine bay with it verses pulling air from the fender in a closed box design.
It appears that the kit comes with Edelbrocks #15406 Heat Exchanger which is a 22,000 BTU cooler. They make a few larger H/E Edelbrock #15405(31000 BTU) & Edelbrock #15408(55,000 BTU). They may not bolt in directly but im sure with some simple designed brackets you can get one of them to work. Of course the #15408 would be a great upgrade as its 250% larger.
AFCO also makes a very large cooler with dual fans designed for the Raptor but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work on your truck. Just may have to reroute some hoses running to it.
Wayne
Are you using the factory air box or do you have a open box design? If a open filter design that may be part of your issue as you are pulling warmer air from the engine bay with it verses pulling air from the fender in a closed box design.
It appears that the kit comes with Edelbrocks #15406 Heat Exchanger which is a 22,000 BTU cooler. They make a few larger H/E Edelbrock #15405(31000 BTU) & Edelbrock #15408(55,000 BTU). They may not bolt in directly but im sure with some simple designed brackets you can get one of them to work. Of course the #15408 would be a great upgrade as its 250% larger.
AFCO also makes a very large cooler with dual fans designed for the Raptor but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work on your truck. Just may have to reroute some hoses running to it.
Wayne
Im not quite understanding what you said, the rotors are on the bottom of the s/c. They suck air in an blow it upwards through the i/c then the air goes out and downwards through the runners into the head.
I now see the other edelbrock h/e thank you. I have seen the afco h/e and considered buying one, however, I am worried that with that infront of my rad/condenser that I may start running the engine hot. Especially on a hot summer day with the a/c on. Thats a lot of big stuff for the air to cool. I may be wrong. I wish there were someone here who has used one. I may go for the 33,000or55,000 h/e though. It looks like atleast one bracket will work on both as the threaded bungs seem to be in the same spot as the one I have currently.
I have the stock airbox still. I also have my stock transmisdion cooler, i may clean it out and line it up as an extra h/e.
By the way. The day I got my truck dyno tuned when we went out on the street for a test drive the IAT temps got to 155-160. This was a pretty hot day in traffic. The truck felt like it had a 6,000 lb trailer behind it.
Last edited by Blown5.0; 04-06-2016 at 05:33 AM.