brettd4x4

This guy knows. Maybe the E85 is super knock resistant

johndeerefarmer

Day 2 of TREXjr tow testing.

We got 1" of rain this morning, plus a storm after lunch so my heavy towing was delayed until tomorrow. However today was sale day at the sale barn so the calves had to go today.
This was my first pull with my new 16' cattle trailer. I haven't had a chance to weigh it yet but it should come in at around 3000- 3500lbs. It is 6' wide by 6' tall so 36 sq ft frontal area. The 5 calves should add another 2750 lbs. Total of 5750 to 6250 lbs.
I couldn't test acceleration with the cattle in the trailer as a calf with a broken leg isn't worth anything.
However I can report the following:
I always run with tow/haul off unless the tranny is hunting gears. I also tow with cruise control on. I had it set for 60mph. On the drive to the sale barn the truck ran great. Shifts are smooth and no surging or any other abnormalities observed. It downshifted once to 5th on a 2 degree incline, other than that it held a steady 6th gear. I had a tail wind of 10-15mph. Observed fuel economy at the sale barn was 10.5mpg. The trip is only 20 miles in length and the engine doesn't warm up for about 10 miles so I was pleased with the fuel economy.
I left there and headed over for some BBQ on the other side of town. This got me 12 mpg. I also tested acceleration at a few stop signs. All I have to say is you had better hold on to the steering wheel tight. Shawn reduced the initial throttle response for me but I am still getting used to it. It's like going from stock to any tune. It takes a few days to get used to how much peddle to give it. So for now I will leave the throttle response alone until I run it a few more days. I will add that in a muddy cowlot that just got 1" of rain on it all four tires spun covering my new trailer and my hired hand with mud. He was pissed but I blamed it on Shawn.

I then headed over to my farm supply and picked up a few gates, then headed home. This was against the wind for about 25 miles, then another 25 with the wind on my side.. Cruise was still on 60mph. Going into the wind she downshifted one time on a fairly steep (for my part of Texas) about 3 degree incline. I did pass a couple of cars. It was at 80 before I knew it so I let off as this trailer doesn't have a WDH or sway control and it was starting to wag it's tail slightly.
I ended up at home with 109 miles for the trip and 9.7mpg. It's still too early to say for certain but it appears that this tune equals the stock tune in fuel economy and it definitely beats the fuel economy of my T4 and 5 Star tunes. It may even beat the stock tune but it will take more testing to be sure.
Max boost observed was 18.9 psi
knock ranged from -3 to +3.
Coolant temps hit 213 degrees so Shawn is tweaking this a little for me for version 3. My other tunes have ranged from 221 to 226 degrees max. I might throw a 170 degree thermostat in it later on depending upon coolant temps on tomorrow's heavy tow tests.
I did not check cat temps today as I was using the Livewire.

Tomorrow's agenda is:
In the morning, test it as a daily driver for both throttle response and fuel economy. A norther is blowing in tonight so temps will drop back to 45 in the morning. The last two days have been warm so tomorrow and this weekend will give me a shot at testing with cooler temps.
After lunch I will hitch the gooseneck back up and throw on 5 small round bales. This will be my 10k test. I will then return, add another 5 bales and head out again. This should put me over 14k lbs. Since I am towing heavy tomorrow I will go back to Torque App and monitor cat temps with these loads.
Tomorrow evening I will report back my results.

BRUTE448

sub'd

Ecofx86

That 2.99 would scare me. . Here is why.

He could have the knock sensor set to read only up to 3. Which means you could have higher knock but the senor only going to show 2.998046875 <--- something to that degree.

If you wot you shouldn't be riding the knock. If it goes up in knock .. It sHound work is way down. Like a ladder. ..

Just some food for thought. .

brucesears

With E85 you would probably never see knock unless the timing was advanced to some ridiculous amount. It runs cooler and the octane is very high.

jwanck11

My suggestion is to create a thread regarding KR where the aspects and effects of knock can be debated. It's entirely possible that someone who actually knows what they are talking about will enter the thread and deliver a few pearls of wisdom. Of course, others will participate, too.

JDF - been waiting to hear about the heavy tow and how it worked out! Thanks for writing detailed descriptions!

I pick up my new trailer Tuesday. It has finally been built.

johndeerefarmer

What kind of trailer did you buy? I didn't get to test heavy today, hopefully tomorrow. Below is today's test results.

For today's tow tests I had the 3rd revision, where Shawn tweaked the cooling fan setting

I didn't get to tow heavy because my Deere dealer called and had some equipment that I ordered. I took my 24' bumper pull equipment trailer (basically a heavy duty car hauler) and drove 25 miles to my John Deere dealer.
Of course this trailer is low to the ground and doesn't have the wind resistance of the gooseneck plus its 2000 lbs lighter.
Temp was 62 degrees. Winds N 8mph. Truck was fairly warm from a 20 mile round trip this morning
Cruise set at 60mph
On level ground I observed:
1 lb of boost
200 degrees coolant temp
A/F R around 13.8 to 14
CAT temp 1300 degrees

On a 2 degree incline
6 psi boost
204 degrees coolant temp
CAT temp 1610 degrees

I hit one traffic light and had to cut off cruise once because of an idiot driver in front of me (I hate people messing up my test data). I ended up at 13.8mpg this was with a head wind.

On the way back I had a chain harrow on the trailer. 500 lbs in weight and about 6 sq ft of wind load.
Max CAT temp observed was 1661 degrees
Max boost 17.4 psi
Max coolant 212 degrees
Max timing pulled -7 degrees
Fuel economy on the return trip was 13mpg- this includes running one red light and passing two cars (but not at WOT)- this was with a tail wind

Back at the farm as I stopped to write down my min/max from the Torque screen, I of course left the truck running so I wouldn't lose the data. The cooling fan was running wide open. I set there about 5 minutes and CAT temps went down to 831 as it cooled off. The engine coolant stayed right at 200 and the fan stayed on high speed. The fan revision wasn't able to add the cooling that we hoped so Shawn it changing it back. After I do my heavy tow tests and get that data I will see about getting a 170 stat.


This morning's short drive at 47 degrees got me 15.3mpg to the Ford dealership (I did have a tailwind part of the way). On the return trip 14.5 mpg. Cold weather and short trips and this engine don't equal good fuel economy. The same trip to the Ford dealership running stock gave me 14.3 mpg going on one occasion and 15mpg on another running T4. 14-15mpg seems about normal for my truck on these types of trips but I don't have enough data to form a conclusion at this time.

I need to do some more unloaded highway driving and some more city type driving so that I can accurately assess this tune as a daily driver (relating to fuel economy) but the tune is looking good as a tow tune.
The low cat temps are nice, shifting is smooth. I set the cruise on 60mph and set back and enjoy the ride. She runs smooth.

I have revision 4 to test tomorrow with a couple more tweaks and hopefully I can get the heavy tow tests done before the rain returns on Sunday.

Stay tuned....... I will report back

jwanck11

I bought an aluminum I-beam with all stainless accessories for my wakeboat. The trailer should be quite light... the boat, not so much. Tige's are infamous for up to 1 1/4" hulls.

Thanks again for the great review and for the testing. It is great to see real data and good testing practices from perhaps the most rigorous tests the EB will be put through.

Sounds like Shawn is closing in on the sweet spot - unreal how much finesse he has.

johndeerefarmer

TREXjr 87 Heavy Tow testing continued.

Today I tested this tune with 10k lbs and then retested at 15k lbs. Both of these tests were done with tow/haul "on" and cruise control "on".

Truck is a '13 King Ranch with max tow, not the HD package. I hit 5100 miles on the odometer today. I do run Firestone air bags. Only other mods are the SSI tune and a Wagner CAC.
My test trailer is as PJ Trailer 25' gooseneck. The dovetail is adjustable from dovetail to flatdeck with a 12k lb jack- makes it great for loading equipment on the dovetail or hauling hay or pipe on the flat deck. The trailer has two 8k lb rated axles with singles. Trailer weighs right at 6k lbs.
I run the trailer tires at their rated pressure of 110 psi. The Goodyear Wrangler AT's on the truck have 40 psi in the front and 50 in the rear.

I loaded up five 4x5' round bales of hay. These weigh from 850-950 lbs depending upon the moisture content when I baled them. So my first load was around 10,000 lbs. The round bales have a wind load of 20 sq feet.

Today the temp was 53 degrees with an ESE wind at 11 mph. I warmed the truck up for 10 minutes then drove over to my "test track". By the time I got there the tranny temp was 188 degrees and coolant was 200 degrees.. My test consists of a 10 mile run over 1-2 degree rolling hills. I get the truck up to speed at set the cruise at 60mph. Once I reach a certain landmark I reset the fuel economy indicator. At the other end at a certain landmark I stop, write down the fuel economy, and make notes on my run. I then get back up to 60mph, reset the cruise and at a certain landmark reset the instant fuel economy indicator and drive back the opposite direction for 10 miles. I try to make each trip identical as possible.
For the trip going west I had a tailwind. At the 10 mile marker I was at 11.1 mpg. Cat temps on near to level ground were 1460-1500 degrees. Truck typically ran from 2 inches of vacuum to about 3 psi of boost under these conditions.
On the 1-2 degree rolling hills CAT temps hit 1650 degrees.
A/F ratio stayed around 13.8 to 14.1. The truck stayed in 5th gear the entire trip.

I turned around, got up to cruising speed, reset the fuel economy gauge and Torque and headed back. This time with a headwind. On level ground with the added load of the wind I would see CAT temps of 1500 to 1600 degrees. On a typical hill I would see 1675 degrees CAT temp with 17 psi of boost. With the added head wind and slight elevation increase the truck downshifted to 5th three times. At the end of this run, I observed the following readings:
7.8 mpg
A/F R of 12
Coolant 215 degrees max
17.4 psi Max Boost
CAT temp max of 1729 degrees
Timing: -7 degrees


So my average fuel economy for this run was 9.4 mpg. Previous test runs with 87 T4 heavy tow yielded 8.6 mpg so I got .8mpg better fuel economy over T4 and .6mpg better than my 5* tune. CAT temp max recorded on T4 and 5 star were slightly lower but temps observed over the course of the test showed TREXjr to be lower overall. I did not make notes on how many times the other two tunes downshifted (just that they did) so I don't have that data to share.


I then disconnected the Torque App and connected my Livewire so that I could monitor knock and IAT2.
The Livewire showed at 60mph
IAT of 54 degrees
IAT2 of 68 degrees. The Wagner CAC was doing it's job.
Knock with cruise set at 60mph would vary from -2 to +2 depending upon the conditions.

I did a WOT run with this load and I observed:
A/F R of 10.8.
Boost was 17.1 psi max.
Knock would start at 2.99 and then start decreasing.
-12 degrees spark
212 degrees coolant temp

When I punched it the tires broke loose so I had to let off slightly. I am still getting used to the throttle response and power.


On moderate acceleration with my 10k load
A/F ratio was 13.3
knock was -3

The only variables in this test are:
1) the temp was 10-15 degrees warmer on my previous test runs. For my truck warmer temps mean better fuel economy
2) I was running 89 octane with T4 87 heavy tow and 5 star 87 P/T whereas today I ran 93 octane on a 87 TREXjr tow tune.
3) The wind was different between the runs. Same speed but different direction


15,000 lb test results are next

johndeerefarmer

15,000 lb tow test:

OK, here is the one you are waiting for.

Since I already had 5 round bales on the trailer it was easy to add 5 more for a total weight of 15,000 lbs. This hay provided a 40 sq ft wind load.

Temp was still about 53 degrees. Winds ESE at 11mph.
The tranny temp was now at 199 degrees.

First I did a WOT run
IAT2 was 120 degrees
Spark -10
Knock -4 to +3
Max boost was 18.7 psi

I then proceeded on my west test run.
Same conditions as before. 60mph with tow/haul on and cruise on.
I observed an A/F R of from 13.7 to 14.1
CAT temps on level ground running 2" of vacuum were 1200 degrees
CAT temps on near level ground with 2 psi of boost were 1500 degrees. Coolant temp was 204 degrees
CAT temps on a hill would typically be 1670 degrees and I would be at 8psi of boost.
The truck stayed in 6th gear the entire trip.
Arriving at the end of this test I was at 10.3mpg. This was with a tail wind.

On the return trip (against the wind) I observed:
CAT temps of 1670 to 1725 on the hills with a boost of 8 psi
Max coolant temp observed was 215 degrees.
Timing was -9 degrees
Max boost observed was 17.5 psi
The truck downshifted to 5th twice on the return trip on these 2 degree hills.
Fuel economy on the return trip was 7.5 mpg. The extra force of the wind increases CAT temps, coolant temps and drops fuel economy.
Average fuel economy for the entire test was 8.9mpg with my 15k lb load.

Coming home from my test I also have some 2 degree and a couple of 3 degree rolling hills. On the 2 degree it would down shift to 5th and on the 3 degree hill to 4th.

Previous test runs with the 5* 87 tune yielded 6.5mpg for the test run, with max CAT temp of 1734 degrees. 5* dropped to 4th gear for the hills.
T4 87 tow tune yielded 6.3 mpg with a max CAT temp of 1765. My notes don't indicate any downshifting with T4 so I don't know if it didn't or I just forgot to write it down. I did have a note that said that T4 had way better mid range power than 5*.

Differences between today's 15k test and those in the past:
1) Temp then was 72 degrees
2) Wind was only slightly different at 9mph from the SE.
3) Instead of towing hay with a frontal wind load of 40 sq ft. I towed the skid steer which has a wind load of around 36-38 sq ft. The hay had a side wind load of 125 sq ft vs about 62-63 sq ft for the skid steer.

I will add that I hate how tow/haul acts. I don't mind it holding gears longer for more power. What I don't like is that it tends to hold them way longer than is necessary. What I mean is it will climb a hill in 4th or 5th and just set there at 3k rpm (and suck down my fuel unnecessarily). The instant that I touch the tow/haul button and turn it off, it will shift to a higher gear- so I know that it doesn't need to be in that gear. Same thing on going down a hill. Tow/haul likes to hold a gear for engine braking. Heck once it kept me at 5000 rpm for over 5 seconds. I finally got irritated and turned off tow/haul and it dropped back to normal. Since Ford's tow/haul is so messed up I think for my next tow I am going to leave it off. If it's not hunting gears every few seconds the tranny is not getting any hotter than normal so I see no reason to use it.


In conclusion, if you have never towed 15,000 lbs you would be surprised how much power you have. Fuel economy for the 15k load was considerably higher than my previous 15k test runs. This pleases me very much. CAT temps were slightly lower than the previous runs. I need to drive it some more to get used to the throttle and do more testing as my DD but I like it.

I am sorry that my reviews are so long but I don't believe in one sentence reviews that say "it's the greatest thing since sliced bread". That's all opinion and no fact. I believe in collecting data and try to present it in a factual manner and leave as much opinion out as I can. You can come to your own conclusion or if you like run your own tests.

Thanks JDF