Ghost's Eco Thread Closed???
07-21-2013, 06:47 PM
#241
The threads regarding Ghost's issues have degraded to the point of the Travon Martin protests. A bunch of people who think they know what's going on making a lot of assumptions.
The only reason I read this thread is hope of hearing what went wrong with all those engines and what the outcome was. "He said, she said" garbage really doesn't do much for me. I don't know Canadian law, so I have no idea what type of options Ghost has at his disposal. Here in the States, we have the Lemon Law, we have arbitration, and God knows we can sue anyone for anything provided an attorney will take the case (which in this event I think you'd have lawyers chomping at the bit to represent you in hopes of getting a big chunk of Ford cash if you had a winnable case).
Ghost, please keep us informed of what's going on. I'd love to hear recordings of phone conversations and see copies of correspondence.
The only reason I read this thread is hope of hearing what went wrong with all those engines and what the outcome was. "He said, she said" garbage really doesn't do much for me. I don't know Canadian law, so I have no idea what type of options Ghost has at his disposal. Here in the States, we have the Lemon Law, we have arbitration, and God knows we can sue anyone for anything provided an attorney will take the case (which in this event I think you'd have lawyers chomping at the bit to represent you in hopes of getting a big chunk of Ford cash if you had a winnable case).
Ghost, please keep us informed of what's going on. I'd love to hear recordings of phone conversations and see copies of correspondence.
07-21-2013, 06:49 PM
#242
Check this out. Came in a pm on a website.
Since the thread is closed- I'm a master tech and worked for ford for along time. You are not the first person this has happened to. You need to get an attorney. The Eco boost problem is due to too much atmospheric pressure in the cylinder before the engine can spin up the rpms fast enough to handle the boost. I've built race engines now for years and anyone will tell you that on a turbo engine spooling that much pressure up that early will destroy an engine. Another problem is most of the dealers won't pay for master techs anymore. They hire kids out of votech because its cheaper. And the reason they keep arguing over it is warranty work only pays about 30% of what the standard book hour pays. The biggest issue is the small engine trying to build enough power to transfer it to move a vehicle that weighs that much. It creates tremendous amounts of stress. Ford knows there is a problem here but just like any auto manufacturer it's cheaper to fight and repair only what people will accept than to recall. I would highly suggest an attorney and make them trade you put of it into another truck with a different engine
Next pm
The waste gate works almost too well. The failure is in the pistons and rods mainly. It's really a combination of a few things. The compression is so high at idle that when the turbos spool the engine keeping up is borderline. If the computer lags for just a fraction of a second and does not modify the timing correctly fast enough you end up with to much compression at low rpm. In turn it creates a pre detonation. Basically instead of the spark plug firing just right after top dead center as the piston begins to fall it fires early as the piston is on its way up and tries to force it back down before the crank is in the correct position. So theirs tremendous force on the piston, wristpin and rod. The weakest part is going to break. Generally the rod where it connects to the piston. Since its still attached to the crank it keeps rotating and the next time it rotates around it punches a hole through the block.
And finally
Throw that at the dealership. They should at that point realize they are in over their head trying to fight you on it. The reason they get away with not repairing things under warranty or fixing the problem is unless your trained on these engines you don't know exactly what's going on and they can basically tell you anything. It's definately not your driving causing this. There's a fine line between performance and reliability. You sacrifice one for the other.
Since the thread is closed- I'm a master tech and worked for ford for along time. You are not the first person this has happened to. You need to get an attorney. The Eco boost problem is due to too much atmospheric pressure in the cylinder before the engine can spin up the rpms fast enough to handle the boost. I've built race engines now for years and anyone will tell you that on a turbo engine spooling that much pressure up that early will destroy an engine. Another problem is most of the dealers won't pay for master techs anymore. They hire kids out of votech because its cheaper. And the reason they keep arguing over it is warranty work only pays about 30% of what the standard book hour pays. The biggest issue is the small engine trying to build enough power to transfer it to move a vehicle that weighs that much. It creates tremendous amounts of stress. Ford knows there is a problem here but just like any auto manufacturer it's cheaper to fight and repair only what people will accept than to recall. I would highly suggest an attorney and make them trade you put of it into another truck with a different engine
Next pm
The waste gate works almost too well. The failure is in the pistons and rods mainly. It's really a combination of a few things. The compression is so high at idle that when the turbos spool the engine keeping up is borderline. If the computer lags for just a fraction of a second and does not modify the timing correctly fast enough you end up with to much compression at low rpm. In turn it creates a pre detonation. Basically instead of the spark plug firing just right after top dead center as the piston begins to fall it fires early as the piston is on its way up and tries to force it back down before the crank is in the correct position. So theirs tremendous force on the piston, wristpin and rod. The weakest part is going to break. Generally the rod where it connects to the piston. Since its still attached to the crank it keeps rotating and the next time it rotates around it punches a hole through the block.
And finally
Throw that at the dealership. They should at that point realize they are in over their head trying to fight you on it. The reason they get away with not repairing things under warranty or fixing the problem is unless your trained on these engines you don't know exactly what's going on and they can basically tell you anything. It's definately not your driving causing this. There's a fine line between performance and reliability. You sacrifice one for the other.
07-21-2013, 06:58 PM
#243
Senior Member
Sounds like someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
07-21-2013, 07:02 PM
#244
Check this out. Came in a pm on a website.
Since the thread is closed- I'm a master tech and worked for ford for along time. You are not the first person this has happened to. You need to get an attorney. The Eco boost problem is due to too much atmospheric pressure in the cylinder before the engine can spin up the rpms fast enough to handle the boost. I've built race engines now for years and anyone will tell you that on a turbo engine spooling that much pressure up that early will destroy an engine. Another problem is most of the dealers won't pay for master techs anymore. They hire kids out of votech because its cheaper. And the reason they keep arguing over it is warranty work only pays about 30% of what the standard book hour pays. The biggest issue is the small engine trying to build enough power to transfer it to move a vehicle that weighs that much. It creates tremendous amounts of stress. Ford knows there is a problem here but just like any auto manufacturer it's cheaper to fight and repair only what people will accept than to recall. I would highly suggest an attorney and make them trade you put of it into another truck with a different engine
Next pm
The waste gate works almost too well. The failure is in the pistons and rods mainly. It's really a combination of a few things. The compression is so high at idle that when the turbos spool the engine keeping up is borderline. If the computer lags for just a fraction of a second and does not modify the timing correctly fast enough you end up with to much compression at low rpm. In turn it creates a pre detonation. Basically instead of the spark plug firing just right after top dead center as the piston begins to fall it fires early as the piston is on its way up and tries to force it back down before the crank is in the correct position. So theirs tremendous force on the piston, wristpin and rod. The weakest part is going to break. Generally the rod where it connects to the piston. Since its still attached to the crank it keeps rotating and the next time it rotates around it punches a hole through the block.
And finally
Throw that at the dealership. They should at that point realize they are in over their head trying to fight you on it. The reason they get away with not repairing things under warranty or fixing the problem is unless your trained on these engines you don't know exactly what's going on and they can basically tell you anything. It's definately not your driving causing this. There's a fine line between performance and reliability. You sacrifice one for the other.
Since the thread is closed- I'm a master tech and worked for ford for along time. You are not the first person this has happened to. You need to get an attorney. The Eco boost problem is due to too much atmospheric pressure in the cylinder before the engine can spin up the rpms fast enough to handle the boost. I've built race engines now for years and anyone will tell you that on a turbo engine spooling that much pressure up that early will destroy an engine. Another problem is most of the dealers won't pay for master techs anymore. They hire kids out of votech because its cheaper. And the reason they keep arguing over it is warranty work only pays about 30% of what the standard book hour pays. The biggest issue is the small engine trying to build enough power to transfer it to move a vehicle that weighs that much. It creates tremendous amounts of stress. Ford knows there is a problem here but just like any auto manufacturer it's cheaper to fight and repair only what people will accept than to recall. I would highly suggest an attorney and make them trade you put of it into another truck with a different engine
Next pm
The waste gate works almost too well. The failure is in the pistons and rods mainly. It's really a combination of a few things. The compression is so high at idle that when the turbos spool the engine keeping up is borderline. If the computer lags for just a fraction of a second and does not modify the timing correctly fast enough you end up with to much compression at low rpm. In turn it creates a pre detonation. Basically instead of the spark plug firing just right after top dead center as the piston begins to fall it fires early as the piston is on its way up and tries to force it back down before the crank is in the correct position. So theirs tremendous force on the piston, wristpin and rod. The weakest part is going to break. Generally the rod where it connects to the piston. Since its still attached to the crank it keeps rotating and the next time it rotates around it punches a hole through the block.
And finally
Throw that at the dealership. They should at that point realize they are in over their head trying to fight you on it. The reason they get away with not repairing things under warranty or fixing the problem is unless your trained on these engines you don't know exactly what's going on and they can basically tell you anything. It's definately not your driving causing this. There's a fine line between performance and reliability. You sacrifice one for the other.
keep that email. hell, print it off and even make sure you've got a copy of it on your personal email.
I wonder if this guy would step into court for you. I mean, if he's a master tech, then he's sure to know his **** for you.
that post pretty much shuts us all up.
07-21-2013, 07:13 PM
#245
If master tech is correct, every ecoboost would be blowing up. Yet many on here have added tunes, race them, no problem. The engine ain't the problem, the issue is probably electrical, as in feedback to the ecm. Defective sensors, wiring, etc.
The following 2 users liked this post by PistoffBlack13Coyote:
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07-21-2013, 07:31 PM
#246
I can only agree with a small part of this master techs PM. The fact that warranty pays so poorly that there is no time for quality work. Ghost said he was told something about intake manifold this time. This sounds like a job being rushed job, along with the mess and damage to his truck I would suspect the latest failure was a dealer caused issue. All the speculation in the world is just that, speculation. Wait for the final outcome from ghost and then make decisions based on fact. There are 400,000 eco's out there and they are not all in the shop. Unfortunately ghost has a problem child truck that has been poorly addressed.
07-21-2013, 07:31 PM
#247
Batteries Not Included
Maybe, but I was taught that engine timing is designed to fire BTDC (before top dead center) because the fuel burns more completely. In the small amount of time that the piston is traveling upward won't cause excessive stress because the fuel needs the extra time to burn more completely and generate more power. Now he is saying that it should fire ATDC (after top dead center) which I have always believed causes misfiring and wasted fuel. Sometimes there would have to be additional spark to remedy this.
Why would a forced induction system want to fire late?
Why would a forced induction system want to fire late?
07-21-2013, 08:26 PM
#248
Senior Member
Maybe, but I was taught that engine timing is designed to fire BTDC (before top dead center) because the fuel burns more completely. In the small amount of time that the piston is traveling upward won't cause excessive stress because the fuel needs the extra time to burn more completely and generate more power. Now he is saying that it should fire ATDC (after top dead center) which I have always believed causes misfiring and wasted fuel. Sometimes there would have to be additional spark to remedy this.
Why would a forced induction system want to fire late?
Why would a forced induction system want to fire late?
But that didn't have anything to do with my comment about the master techs theory about the Eco's weaknesses. My comment was just to imply that Ghost's issues have nothing to do with the Eco's weaknesses. More like lack of diagnosing the issue that is causing all of these engine failures.
07-21-2013, 08:30 PM
#250
Yes those are facts and I agree. See my above post. The way I'm reading it is a minor problem could definitely cause my trucks symptoms.