Tuner Boost

First we have to look at the difference between port injection of old, and the direct injection of today....and although the amount and severity of deposits varies from manufacturer engine to manufacturer engine, all experience this and in amounts that have a negative effect on the engines efficiency as soon as any deposits form. The engine will never flow as efficiently as when new, and rings are seated properly to prevent oil from entering directly from the crankcase. The better the rings seat, the more power and better efficiency.

So, what fuel you use has no effect except for octane. With a port injection system it was critical to use a top tier fuel like shell, etc. with the detergent additives as the fuel always showered the valves with this fuel and deposits could not form. Here is a video showing the actual insides of the combustion process in super slow motion so you can actually see the fuel spray as it drenches the valves:


And in a diagram here:


So today, the fuel never touches a spec on the valves, it is introduced directly into the combustion chamber at 2-3000 PSI and not until the final 20-30% of compression stroke so it is only present for milleseconds:



So as all gasoline comes from the same bulk suppliers, it makes no difference now.

So, no additive, and no brand of fuel can make any difference.

Now on to the EcoBoost.

The ecoboost has a flawed PCV system that only evacuates at idle and low throttle, so it accumulates excessive water, unburnt fuel, sulfuric acid, etc. in the crankcase, and this is them ingested in concentrations that are not good for economy, power, or longevity of the engine (oil analysis show the high levels of contaminates and increased wear) but it DOES as a side effect slow the formation of the deposits on the intake valves.

Here is what it looks like when drained:

Here is what this mix looks like after it is trapped and removed and allowed to settle for a few weeks:


And a piston after the engine ingested to much of this mix at one time:


Non the less, here are some pictures at 30k and 57k ? (not sure on the higher mileage one):

30k:


higher mileage one:


And after a manual cleaning:


So a port injection engine with over 120k miles on it to compare:


and a GM 3.6L DI v6 at 16k miles is far worse than most ecoboosts will be:



So, the only difference in the different makes/engines that are DI and the EB is this water/gunk ingestion, that is bad in every way for an engine except it does slow the deposit formation.

The engineers spend a tremendous amount of time in the proer design of the intake ports, valve shape and design, piston top, quench areas, etc. all to achieve peak efficiency (look at the piston top design for a DI engine and how it manipulates the fuel dispersion and the burn pattern):


So any deviation from this shape and design by rough uneven deposits is a hindrance to that engines ability to perform at peak efficiency.

Then long term, these deposits on the stems are very hard and abrasive, and each time the valve opens and closes the stem is wearing the guides, which must maintain proper tolerances to prevent oil ingestion and instability (a wobble, etc.) when in operation. So you want zero deposits forming. And the trade off with the EB is all this gunk accumulating in the crankcase diluting and contaminating the engine oil, and being ingested through the combustion process.

So, although the severity and rate of deposits formng is less than most every other DI engine in the world, it is still bad enough to affect the engines ability to maintain peak performance and efficiency.

snobdds

^^^Copy & Paste to every forum out there. There is more fear mongering in that post than what actually what happens with an eco...

itguy08

Tuner, if you can't stay on topic please refrain from posting. As stated, other engines are out of scope.

We want to discuss the Ecoboost and how they affect this engine.

Do you have data like dyno runs for the Ecoboost or MPG data?

Tuner Boost

This is totally on topic....in every way, Just because you have a different belief, the facts are facts and this thread title is for everyone's education. Hate all you want and call names and act like some school girls on facebook, but the facts are the facts and the title is intake valve deposits on ecoboost.

So play nice and have some ethics and lets have a intelligent discussion instead of your deeper agendas.

So, lets here from others, and not the hate posse. Have a adult discussion here and refrain from the insults. You want a discussion on this lets have one.

packplantpath

Yes. Please show us evidence of an actual problem in an eco boost due to deposits. Out of the thousands of trucks and cars sold since the motor was released, I'm certain you can find some documented evidence in this platform for what is obviously such a serious problem.

agetech

Good thread!
Enough with the catch can BS already. We know! It's posted everywhere!
On the engine with the manual cleaning of the intake side of the valves, was there a before and after mileage check? Was there a before and after dyno run? If not, than any advantage to cleaning the valves is subjective, no proof that this helps anything!
How about those that run methanol, will that help keep the valves clean? I would be more tempted to try this than a catch can.

itguy08

I don't know where you get the idea I hate you cause I don't.

And the parts of your post that are off topic are:
1. The GM engine discussion. We are talking about Ford's 3.5L Ecoboost, no GM, Not VW/Audi, etc. I sated that in the original post.
2. The PCV system. It's not really relevant as we all know DI engines have deposits. It's the effect of them on the Ecoboost 3.5 we're trying to quantify.

I have ethics, thanks. I want a deeper discussion of what these deposits do on an Ecoboost. Not a GM 3.6, Not a VW/Audi 4 banger, none of that really matters to us as all these engines are architected differently.

That's the point - to hear actual experiences with these deposits. I've posted mine on MPG, which I think we all can agree is a good measure of efficiency (as is HP and Torque).

I'd encourage others to do the same with concrete data. That's the point of this thread.

I'd even love to hear from someone who had a cleaning and had better performance or MPG.

There is no hate or hidden agenda no matter how much you want it to be.

snobdds

Yes, other engines do not add to this topic. Lets keep apples to apples here.

I want to hear from people that, as a result of the DI on the ecoboost, they had X, Y and Z problems.

I don't have enough miles on mine to have any issues...

Left Plate

The first 3 valve pictures in the center of Tuner Boosts post are from EcoBoost engines!
The bottom 2 are mine before and after! So he is on topic!

Wannafbody

As far as I can see, unless the deposits impact flow numbers they are inconsequential. The only way to know for sure would be to flow test a new head and then one with 50K on it and compare flow ratings. I'm guessing the numbers wouldn't be hugely different.