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Old thread, I know, but I thought the Cosworth and Link may be interested in some Used Oil Analysis data I am collecting on the EcoBoost 3.5 V6. Clearly there is a fuel in oil dilution issue with these engines, which causes hot viscosity to drop and TBN to drop. I included your data in my updated table. See below.
Your issue seem typical, and perhaps even worse than others I've seen. Clearly the engine itself has issues with fuel dilution of the oil. The factory MotorCraft blend oil seems like a really poor choice, and typically does not last 2000 miles. If I were you I would try to find a heavier, cheaper, synthetic, and change the oil often. My thoughts would be 3000 miles for the oil, and 6000 for the filter. In Canada PetroCan Supreme Synthetic may be a good choice. I buy it from the distributer (Dandy Oil in Edmonton). Costco sells Castrol Syntec for a good price too. This link may also help you find a good oil. Doesn't have the PetroCan oil, but you can find specs on line.
If you are going to continue to do oil analysis I would suggest you include the TBN number in the analysis. It is a problem in these engines. Also you may want to consider Polaris instead of Blackstone. Blackstone only estimates fuel in oil. Polaris measures it more directly. Polaris has a lab in Edmonton. http://polarislabs.com/
I forgot about this thread until you posted. Got my next one back and sent for the next one. I'll try polaris once my pre-bought ones run out.
Report 2 up. I still have a couple left with Blackstone then will try one of the local suggestions. Report is looking better. I was comparing a couple on BITOG and these seem to be a lot more in line.
Switched to 91 and also took the tuner off. Don't really like the tune on the EB, which is interesting since it should be so easy to make a good tuner. My 5.4 tuner was great.
It is better. However it is still a 20 weight oil in the used condition. Needs to be 9.3 or higher in 100 deg. C viscosity to be a 30 weight. My thoughts would be unchanged. Go for a less expensive synthetic, and change more often, 5000 km instead of miles.
It is better. However it is still a 20 weight oil in the used condition. Needs to be 9.3 or higher in 100 deg. C viscosity to be a 30 weight. My thoughts would be unchanged. Go for a less expensive synthetic, and change more often, 5000 km instead of miles.
I'm from Canada so all of those measurements are in KM. My last one has 5300km on the oil.
I'm from Canada so all of those measurements are in KM. My last one has 5300km on the oil.
Ouch! That is not good. I was hoping oil changes at 5000 km or 3000 miles would mitigate the issue. I was making the assumption that fuel dilution increases with more and more mileage (linear relationship). There is a possibility that fuel dilution happens very fast and then just stabilizes at the rate the PVC system can get rid of it. If that is the case then short oil change intervals, will not help much. Realistically one should go to a 5W-40 oil, which will thin down to a 0W-30.
Ouch! That is not good. I was hoping oil changes at 5000 km or 3000 miles would mitigate the issue. I was making the assumption that fuel dilution increases with more and more mileage (linear relationship). There is a possibility that fuel dilution happens very fast and then just stabilizes at the rate the PVC system can get rid of it. If that is the case then short oil change intervals, will not help much. Realistically one should go to a 5W-40 oil, which will thin down to a 0W-30.
I wonder if that is why they went with a 30 weight. Every other Ford I have is a 20 weight. All my old F150's, Focus, Cobra. Etc. Perhaps they find it thins out and then settles at a 20 weight which is the engines design tolerance. Just a thought. If my wear stabilizes. I won't be happy about the fuel but it won't be causing many issues.
I am hoping my second report was just a mix if winter, break in, how cold it was, etc.
I wonder if that is why they went with a 30 weight. Every other Ford I have is a 20 weight. All my old F150's, Focus, Cobra. Etc. Perhaps they find it thins out and then settles at a 20 weight which is the engines design tolerance. Just a thought. If my wear stabilizes. I won't be happy about the fuel but it won't be causing many issues.
The theory floating around the SHO forums when the switch from 5w20 to 5w30 was found out was that it was due to the cam phasers in the F150. The car versions have a different set of phasers than the F150. Ford figured that it would be easier to say Ecoboost=5w30 (the other models in the Escape, Fusion, etc. use it too) rather than a bunch of specs for the different models.
Not sure what or why it is this way. But the 2010 Flex, MKT, SHO, MKS are getting up there in years/miles and they are not blowing up with a diet of 5w20 so I think it's OK to stick with what Ford says to use for the particular engine.
I wonder if that is why they went with a 30 weight. Every other Ford I have is a 20 weight. All my old F150's, Focus, Cobra. Etc. Perhaps they find it thins out and then settles at a 20 weight which is the engines design tolerance. Just a thought. If my wear stabilizes. I won't be happy about the fuel but it won't be causing many issues.
I am hoping my second report was just a mix if winter, break in, how cold it was, etc.
Yes, in that other thread I started on the EcoBoost oil dilution problem, I suggested that too. I'm 100% sure Ford knows what is going on, and may have just accepted that the oil will dilute down to 20 weight and that is OK. I have done enough research on modern engines to conclude that if the valve train is designed for it, 20 weight is OK. 30 is probably a touch better, but it ends up being a bit of a tradeoff between fuel efficiency and durability. But it all depends on the engine. 4 valves per cylinder is much better than 2 because each valve is lighter and stresses are lower. Roller cams are better than standard ones. If you want a technical paper on this, let me know. I have either a link or pdf somewhere.
My strategy if I owned one of these would be to find the highest virgin viscosity 5W-30 synthetic that is a reasonable price, and change at 3000 miles. My choice would be the PetroCan Supreme Synthetic. It starts at 11.0 cSt @ 100 C. Going to a 40 weight could technically void the warranty...
The theory floating around the SHO forums when the switch from 5w20 to 5w30 was found out was that it was due to the cam phasers in the F150.
I've heard the cam phaser theory, but when you look at the extreme variation of viscosity, which is what I believe they are sensitive to, it is hard to convince yourself that it is as critical as they say. That said, valve timing may be something else that is affected by fuel dilution.
09-14-2014, 12:13 PM
