Ecoboost condensate catch can, post your results here
03-24-2014, 08:31 PM
#103
Just Another Member
Is this a problem in any of the other EcoBoost engines: the 1.0L inline 3, the 1.6L and 2.0L inline 4s? If so, is anyone selling catch cans to the Europeans?
03-25-2014, 02:00 PM
#104
All direct injection engines, The twin turbo V6 has the least build up of the family.
Here is a link to photos submitted by techs for most every auto maker in the world showing how this varies from make to make. BMW Mini is one of the worst.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Dire...w=1366&bih=667
As you can see this affects all DI engines including 4 stroke outboard, snowmobile, and motorcycles.
Here is a link to photos submitted by techs for most every auto maker in the world showing how this varies from make to make. BMW Mini is one of the worst.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Dire...w=1366&bih=667
As you can see this affects all DI engines including 4 stroke outboard, snowmobile, and motorcycles.
03-25-2014, 11:22 PM
#105
03-26-2014, 11:25 AM
#106
An upper induction cleaning can be done where Seafoam, BG, or one of the other solvents are introduced into the intake charge via a vacuum port, but that does not do a great job, and as it loosens these deposits by expanding them, some of the smaller hard deposits always get forced between the cylinder wall and pistons when doing so and cause scouring (scratches) that you dont want.
The manual processes are very effective. They can be a walnut shell media blast or done using a die-grinder or drill with brush sets and long screw driver.
Like these:
http://www.ipatools.com/products/ind.../ipa-8037.html
http://www.toolsource.com/stainless-...-p-142341.html
Both require removal of the intake manifold. Then bring the first cylinder your going to do up to TDC (use a socket on the crank bolt) so all valves are closed so no debris can enter the cylinder. Then wipe good around each port with brake clean and a clean rag. Use wide blue masking tape to seal each port your NOT working on so no debris enters them.
(When the IM is off, look into each runner to see if it is coated in oil)
Have a shop vac handy and compressed air nozzle to blow out the deris as you clean it.
Start with the long flat blade screw driver and push loose as much of the larger pieces as you can. Suck out with shop vac. Then move to the brushes. Dont be afraid your going to scratch any thing, valves and seats are very hard. Keep suck up deris and blow clear with air nozzle and brush until all deposits are removed from the valve tulip and the stem (these wear out valve guides as they adhere as it is very hard abrasive deposit).
After it is clean, blow out all dust and particles one more time and tape this port and move to the next. Make sure at each cylinder to bring the piston up to TDC to ensure the valves are completely closed (watch the valves as you move the crank so you know both are closed)
Should take from 2-4 hours depending on how bad the deposits are.
For the walnut shell media blasting (BMW dealers use this) the blast nozzel is used instead of the brushes, but that requires purchasing the unit to do this....the brush method works great.
An assortment of broken brushes from doing these here. We do these steadily on DI engines:
Before:
After:
The other thread the main haters claim this is fine and has no effect whatsoever on the engines efficiency....crazy.
If you need more help, just ask.
The manual processes are very effective. They can be a walnut shell media blast or done using a die-grinder or drill with brush sets and long screw driver.
Like these:
http://www.ipatools.com/products/ind.../ipa-8037.html
http://www.toolsource.com/stainless-...-p-142341.html
Both require removal of the intake manifold. Then bring the first cylinder your going to do up to TDC (use a socket on the crank bolt) so all valves are closed so no debris can enter the cylinder. Then wipe good around each port with brake clean and a clean rag. Use wide blue masking tape to seal each port your NOT working on so no debris enters them.
(When the IM is off, look into each runner to see if it is coated in oil)
Have a shop vac handy and compressed air nozzle to blow out the deris as you clean it.
Start with the long flat blade screw driver and push loose as much of the larger pieces as you can. Suck out with shop vac. Then move to the brushes. Dont be afraid your going to scratch any thing, valves and seats are very hard. Keep suck up deris and blow clear with air nozzle and brush until all deposits are removed from the valve tulip and the stem (these wear out valve guides as they adhere as it is very hard abrasive deposit).
After it is clean, blow out all dust and particles one more time and tape this port and move to the next. Make sure at each cylinder to bring the piston up to TDC to ensure the valves are completely closed (watch the valves as you move the crank so you know both are closed)
Should take from 2-4 hours depending on how bad the deposits are.
For the walnut shell media blasting (BMW dealers use this) the blast nozzel is used instead of the brushes, but that requires purchasing the unit to do this....the brush method works great.
An assortment of broken brushes from doing these here. We do these steadily on DI engines:
Before:
After:
The other thread the main haters claim this is fine and has no effect whatsoever on the engines efficiency....crazy.
If you need more help, just ask.
03-26-2014, 01:50 PM
#107
Some more I just read:
The GDI Deposit issue is a real problem.
Cause is multi layered.
1. No fuel wash from injection system.
2. PCV vapors coat the valve/stem/port
3. EGR particulates add to the issue.
4. Mileage and extended oil change intervals cause compression ring land deposit that sticks rings to the piston increasing blow-by, increasing PCV vapors, increasing valve deposit.
5. The other problem is the deposits in the combustion chamber and injector tip. The injector has a director plate on it, creating multiple spray streams targeting the piston top. The piston top has a very specific shape so when the high pressure fuel streams enter the combustion chamber the shape of the piston will properly distribute the fuel through out the combustion chamber. When the deposit build up covers the injector tip, effecting the director spray pattern, and changes the shape of the top of the piston, the engine is less efficient and less powerful. This condition can be mitigated with the use high quality furl tank additives such as BG's 44K.
90% of the issue is caused by oil vapors from PCV induction. This vapor coats the valve in layers of deposit every time the engine is shut down. These layers build over time and mileage. The light distillates evaporate, leaving the heavier deposits. GDI combustion chamber temperatures are much higher, due to "stratified lean mode" of air fuel mixture, 30:1 to 50:1 Air fuel ratios. The higher temps create a much harder valve deposit, that does not respond well to vaporized induction procedures. Also vaporized induction cleaning is ineffective on variable intake systems.
Here is a test of a GDI vehicle from new to over 60,000 miles. BG Fuel Test. The test was performed on a Ford Taurus SHO TT V6, bought new to run this test. Factory scheduled maintenance was followed till 32,000 miles. The results speak for themselves. The test includes regular oil and fuel analysis, boro-scope pictures and videos, dynamometer testing, and seat of the pants commentary. All of this information is included on the website.
GM Recognizes the issue:
PIP5029C: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And Or Exhaust Valves - (Apr 23, 2013)
But the procedure does not work effectively, you may have to perform this x5 or so and the valves are still not clean.
Look at the second picture in the PI. Notice the mushroom cap of deposit on the valve stems? Do you see the fractured and missing deposit on the valve on the left side of the picture? The fractured deposit can set P0300 P030X DTC's as it passes through the induction system. Possibly, Holding the intake valve open, closing the gap on the spark plug, or holding the exhaust valve open. Customers complaint is MIL or rough running that may have cleared by the time it arrived at the dealership. Cylinder specific or generic P030?, but no indication of a current issue. Until you pull the upper intake plenum and see the fractured valve deposit. I have seen quite a lot of this on 3.6's and some on the 2.4 SIDI.
Toyota/Lexus has issued a bulletin that instructs the dealer to install stronger valve springs to crush the deposit fracture.
Ford and VW/Audi are also experiencing major issues, BMW as well.
The GDI Deposit issue is a real problem.
Cause is multi layered.
1. No fuel wash from injection system.
2. PCV vapors coat the valve/stem/port
3. EGR particulates add to the issue.
4. Mileage and extended oil change intervals cause compression ring land deposit that sticks rings to the piston increasing blow-by, increasing PCV vapors, increasing valve deposit.
5. The other problem is the deposits in the combustion chamber and injector tip. The injector has a director plate on it, creating multiple spray streams targeting the piston top. The piston top has a very specific shape so when the high pressure fuel streams enter the combustion chamber the shape of the piston will properly distribute the fuel through out the combustion chamber. When the deposit build up covers the injector tip, effecting the director spray pattern, and changes the shape of the top of the piston, the engine is less efficient and less powerful. This condition can be mitigated with the use high quality furl tank additives such as BG's 44K.
90% of the issue is caused by oil vapors from PCV induction. This vapor coats the valve in layers of deposit every time the engine is shut down. These layers build over time and mileage. The light distillates evaporate, leaving the heavier deposits. GDI combustion chamber temperatures are much higher, due to "stratified lean mode" of air fuel mixture, 30:1 to 50:1 Air fuel ratios. The higher temps create a much harder valve deposit, that does not respond well to vaporized induction procedures. Also vaporized induction cleaning is ineffective on variable intake systems.
Here is a test of a GDI vehicle from new to over 60,000 miles. BG Fuel Test. The test was performed on a Ford Taurus SHO TT V6, bought new to run this test. Factory scheduled maintenance was followed till 32,000 miles. The results speak for themselves. The test includes regular oil and fuel analysis, boro-scope pictures and videos, dynamometer testing, and seat of the pants commentary. All of this information is included on the website.
GM Recognizes the issue:
PIP5029C: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And Or Exhaust Valves - (Apr 23, 2013)
But the procedure does not work effectively, you may have to perform this x5 or so and the valves are still not clean.
Look at the second picture in the PI. Notice the mushroom cap of deposit on the valve stems? Do you see the fractured and missing deposit on the valve on the left side of the picture? The fractured deposit can set P0300 P030X DTC's as it passes through the induction system. Possibly, Holding the intake valve open, closing the gap on the spark plug, or holding the exhaust valve open. Customers complaint is MIL or rough running that may have cleared by the time it arrived at the dealership. Cylinder specific or generic P030?, but no indication of a current issue. Until you pull the upper intake plenum and see the fractured valve deposit. I have seen quite a lot of this on 3.6's and some on the 2.4 SIDI.
Toyota/Lexus has issued a bulletin that instructs the dealer to install stronger valve springs to crush the deposit fracture.
Ford and VW/Audi are also experiencing major issues, BMW as well.
03-26-2014, 04:57 PM
#108
If You had an engine with about 5000 miles on it could you start the Sea Foam treatments as a preventative maintenance and avoid the manual cleaning or would you still get to the point of large debris?
If you did it on a schedule what would it be?
If you did it on a schedule what would it be?
03-26-2014, 05:15 PM
#109
Tuner,nobodybis saying deposits don't matter. They are saying the ecoboost shows no evidence of having an issue with deposits. And it is true,so far that has not been an issue for anybody. Ford claimed they had solved the issue of di deposits on valves,and so far it seems true. Time will tell. But people are reporting 100,000 miles on the car version with no ill effects. Trucks are getting close to that mileage.
Personally,I don't see this being a problem until 100,000 miles and it can be fixed then.
Personally,I don't see this being a problem until 100,000 miles and it can be fixed then.
03-26-2014, 05:19 PM
#110
Just Another Member
Tuner Boost are you now double posting the same info here and in the CAC condensate drain hole thread? This is excessive.