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Old 05-08-2013, 12:54 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Cwilliams29 View Post
Hey Geoff, any timeline on stock location turbo upgrades? Thanks for what you do for our sport!
I wonder what stock location turbo upgrades + upgraded fuel system + upgraded FR intercooler + FR Cat-back exhaust would give you without meth injection? In other words, how much power can be pushed on pump gas using DI before meth injection is needed to prevent detonation? Deep thoughts I'm sure that keep the wonderful folks at FR up at night dreaming of new kits for us power junkies to buy!
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ben87iroc View Post

I wonder what stock location turbo upgrades + upgraded fuel system + upgraded FR intercooler + FR Cat-back exhaust would give you without meth injection? In other words, how much power can be pushed on pump gas using DI before meth injection is needed to prevent detonation? Deep thoughts I'm sure that keep the wonderful folks at FR up at night dreaming of new kits for us power junkies to buy!
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:05 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
thanks for putting this together mike hopefully it helps enthusiasts on this forum. Could you also add a link to the intercooler installation article and the exhaust installation videos? that might be helpful when doing the install

anybody not familiar with me/Full-Race, Im an engineer by day and my primary role at FR is new product development. We are working on a number of new products right now such as canned tunes (octane and towing dependant), air-to-oil front mounted oil cooler, downpipes (thanks to everyone who asked), intake, 300M axles, and a few others. We do not rush products to market so thanks in advance for your patience.

Our F150 single turbo kit remains my big project, our target was to release this kit by late summer of 2013 and right now we are on track. Tuning the PCM has been an ongoing process, Its been a long road (this computer is way too smart) and we've had to further develop the software to get it where we want. Now its working flawlessly and we are currently waiting on the new EFR7163 turbocharger from BorgWarner. I consider this to be the "magic turbo" and once that turbo starts shipping, our tune can be finalized and the kit will become a reality

I enjoy kicking around new ideas, so feel free to post up here or PM me with questions, it might take a couple days to respond but I will get back to you. Anybody looking to get info on the Single Turbo kit - email us with your contact info and we can add you to the update list (this costs nothing but we will inform you first). The guys in our Front office only get updates when products are completed/finished and ready to ship. they get frustrated at me when people call to ask about products or projects they had no idea about ... if an item you want to ask about is not up on our site yet please dont call until it is.

Ill post any pertinent updates here from this point on, thanks everybody
What email address would I use for updates on the single turbo?
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:25 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Cwilliams29 View Post
Hey Geoff, any timeline on stock location turbo upgrades?
For 2011-2012 guys, 2013 turbos will be able to make more power. Its really hard to find the 2013 turbos except on a wrecked truck, so keep your eyes out this will require an external BOV on the charge pipe. We are trying to make these 2013 turbos available through the aftermarket (right now its exclusive to ford for OE use) No idea how long it would take at this time but "the ball is in motion"

As for a serious performance upgrade turbo - "the race is on" amongst a few turbo shops to see who will get theirs to market first. I tried to get the lab to speed things up and get these done but it just wasnt coming together (these turbos are more complex than std K03's). We are starting our 3rd revision now, I am tempted to only modify the 2013+ turbos since they can be backwards compatible with the 11-12s and much more material in the compressor housing (no BOV compressor recirc like the 11-12)

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Originally Posted by ben87iroc View Post
I wonder what stock location turbo upgrades + upgraded fuel system + upgraded FR intercooler + FR Cat-back exhaust would give you without meth injection? In other words, how much power can be pushed on pump gas using DI before meth injection is needed to prevent detonation?
For a stock DI fuel system with aftermarket turbo setup "around 580tq and 385whp" is where the stock fueling is maxxed. There's room for more TQ improvement, but the peak HP #s remain fuel limited. Some tuners might choose to lean the mixture out more, but there is no point if it means a bad tank of gas could cause knock. Meth injection (or any type of additional fueling) changes this considerably of course

When you say upgraded fuel system what is that in reference to?

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What email address would I use for updates on the single turbo?
tech@full-race.com
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:20 AM   #15
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Approximately how much more can one safely get HP wise adding meth? And I assume the single turbo kit will include something to address the fueling limitation or no?
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:41 AM   #16
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Good to know about the 2013 turbos. So hopefully the fuel upgrades coming will help the 2013 guys get some extra power w/o buying an all out kit?
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:46 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
For a stock DI fuel system with aftermarket turbo setup "around 580tq and 385whp" is where the stock fueling is maxxed. There's room for more TQ improvement, but the peak HP #s remain fuel limited. Some tuners might choose to lean the mixture out more, but there is no point if it means a bad tank of gas could cause knock. Meth injection (or any type of additional fueling) changes this considerably of course

When you say upgraded fuel system what is that in reference to?
When I say "upgraded fuel system" I'm referring to the mythical upgraded injectors and fuel pump to get past the current limit of the stock system. I know it doesn't exist yet, but if it did, was wondering how much we could gain (in theory) before the next limiting factor (boost, engine mechanical limits, knock, etc.)? My thought / dream is of a kit using the stock turbo locations that nets significant gains beyond the tuner / exhaust mods, looks stock, and doesn't require meth injection or significant modifications required to go to a single turbo system. In other words, most bang for the buck and least tear up to the current system...
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Last edited by ben87iroc; 05-13-2013 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:25 AM   #18
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Just a random thought, I know the MS3 and VW TSI motors are all DI. Autotech makes upgrade fuel guts for the bosche fuel pumps and APR (GOAPR) makes an upgrade FSI pump. Since it seems bosche makes the DI pumps on both cars and the parts are interchangeable maybe they are interchangeable with ours or worth looking into.

Also for more fuel us VW guys have gone to other VW/AUDI motors with more power such as the S3 injectors or RS4 injectors. That all make more power and demand more fuel over the 2.0T FSI motor.

Click the image to open in full size.

And bc you guys will ask who what when where why

Injectors
http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/catalog...ors-111-1.html

Fuel Pump
http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/product...it-463-24.html

http://www.goapr.com/products/fsi_fuel_pump.html

Just a thought and since I came from a different platform maybe some extra info would help, maybe not, but better than sitting on my hands quiet. I just came over to an Ecoboost a week ago so haven't had time to look over the fueling parts and get parts from a local vw friends to compare fuel components.

I know a few vw performance vendors that have flow benches for injectors that could easily test this for us if someone happens to have an extra injector for whatever reason.

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Old 05-15-2013, 11:31 AM   #19
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^^^Very good post, it would seem feasible that the injectors might just work. The upgraded internals idea might not take a lot of calibration to work.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:38 AM   #20
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^^^Very good post, it would seem feasible that the injectors might just work.
yea the earlier FSI motors upon being tuned, especially the stage II tunes with downpipes were spooling so fast the FSI pump wouldnt keep up bc something along the lines of they are flow vs rpm. As rpm increases so does flow, and the lightening quick spool of the k03 on the 2.0 motor the pump wouldnt keep up and show a low rail pressure and the car would go into limp mode to protect itself, so APR was the first to come out with a higher flowing fuel pump for more flow down low and amount of flow up top.

It was actually better for guys in the beginning to get larger turbos bc the lag would keep them from going limp and having to cycle the key.
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