Broken timing chains - 2011 Ecoboosts
10-27-2015, 09:58 AM
#281
Time to escalate. I would first contact the rep on this forum. If you have receipts from your oil changes then you have proof of proper oil change intervals.
And using a fram filter IS NOT grounds for warranty void. You are not required to use MC parts, you simply have to use parts that meet ford spec.
I'd be willing to bet that if thy voided your warranty due to a fram filter that fram would be on your side in a heartbeat.
And using a fram filter IS NOT grounds for warranty void. You are not required to use MC parts, you simply have to use parts that meet ford spec.
I'd be willing to bet that if thy voided your warranty due to a fram filter that fram would be on your side in a heartbeat.
10-27-2015, 09:59 AM
#282
Senior Member
Hi , I am new to this site and posting in general. I just felt the need to reach out and see if there is any recourse, I am not getting any support from my dealership. I am driving my dads 2011 f150 super cab ecoboost, it died at under 50k miles.
I started driving it in Jan of 2013 after my Dad passed away, we have a ranch and use it mostly Hi-way getting there, some city driving and hunting. When my dad bought the truck in jan 2012, I took it in for regular oil changes, and at 8k it started running rough at idle and under acceleration. The truck was never hot rodded or abused and Oil changes were done between 4 and 5k regularly. During the last 3 years the truck was taken in 4 more times for the same issue that was never fixed (they could not find the problem). They did add a deflector shield (previous TSB) on the intercooler but from what I understand there was a new TSB issued that required the intercooler to be swapped out for an part number ending with AE instead of the original part ending with AC.
The dealership found sludge inside the engine and despite hundreds if not thousands of posts showing what appears to be a defective timing chain, they are claiming that it is the sludge that caused the problem, and are not accepting any responsibility from a known issue regarding this truck.
I dont understand how there would be any sludge in the engine as it was maintained properly ( i have all of the non dealership reciepts) and never hot rodded. The oil in the crankcase is less than 1800 miles on it and it is BLACK? I have worked on turbos quite a bit in the past and have a bit of experience in automotive mechanics (rebuilt 100 + engines) but not much experience with this 1st gen ecoboost. A month before it died the engine started making that cold start rattle, indicative of premature timing chain wear. I can't help feeling that the engines current condition is all somehow related, The cause of the rough idle and poor performance when passing, the premature breakdown of the oils viscosity, and the premature wearing of the timing chain. Right before the engine died it set off a check engine warning , I went to my local Autozone and read the 16 codes (I also photographed them so I would not have to write them down) and one of the codes was P0016
The valve covers were removed from the engine and what is noticeable is the pass side VTC is broken off of the cam and the drivers side timing chain is completely jammed in-between the engine and the VTC.
I was also told of a recent TSB that specified my truck and engine combo, if engine fails, and reads a code P0016 then the probable cause could be premature timing chain wear and the dealership is authorized to replace the prematurely worn timing chain. I would love to see them replace the unit with a 3rd gen 3.5 but they won't even offer to cover the warranty because of the presence of sludge.
I only used Motorcraft oil and mostly filters but on occasion i would pick up a Fram filter, I always thought they were a better product, but according to the lead tech at the dealership i was informed that the use of a Fram filter would also be grounds for voiding the warranty?
If anyone can help I would really appreciate it, The truck has a lot of sentimental value to me as it was my dads and we did a lot of ranching and hunting together in that truck, if not I would just quit making the payments and let them keep it. Does anyone know of a possible reason that would cause a breakdown in the engine oils viscosity and build up sludge (outside of a lack of proper maintenance), perhaps overheating while lubricating the turbos? I also heard that idling for long periods of time would create this situation?
Or what the actual reason is for the premature wearing out of the chain? Is it the structural integrity of the steel or the lack of material comprising the chain , Or …
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
I started driving it in Jan of 2013 after my Dad passed away, we have a ranch and use it mostly Hi-way getting there, some city driving and hunting. When my dad bought the truck in jan 2012, I took it in for regular oil changes, and at 8k it started running rough at idle and under acceleration. The truck was never hot rodded or abused and Oil changes were done between 4 and 5k regularly. During the last 3 years the truck was taken in 4 more times for the same issue that was never fixed (they could not find the problem). They did add a deflector shield (previous TSB) on the intercooler but from what I understand there was a new TSB issued that required the intercooler to be swapped out for an part number ending with AE instead of the original part ending with AC.
The dealership found sludge inside the engine and despite hundreds if not thousands of posts showing what appears to be a defective timing chain, they are claiming that it is the sludge that caused the problem, and are not accepting any responsibility from a known issue regarding this truck.
I dont understand how there would be any sludge in the engine as it was maintained properly ( i have all of the non dealership reciepts) and never hot rodded. The oil in the crankcase is less than 1800 miles on it and it is BLACK? I have worked on turbos quite a bit in the past and have a bit of experience in automotive mechanics (rebuilt 100 + engines) but not much experience with this 1st gen ecoboost. A month before it died the engine started making that cold start rattle, indicative of premature timing chain wear. I can't help feeling that the engines current condition is all somehow related, The cause of the rough idle and poor performance when passing, the premature breakdown of the oils viscosity, and the premature wearing of the timing chain. Right before the engine died it set off a check engine warning , I went to my local Autozone and read the 16 codes (I also photographed them so I would not have to write them down) and one of the codes was P0016
The valve covers were removed from the engine and what is noticeable is the pass side VTC is broken off of the cam and the drivers side timing chain is completely jammed in-between the engine and the VTC.
I was also told of a recent TSB that specified my truck and engine combo, if engine fails, and reads a code P0016 then the probable cause could be premature timing chain wear and the dealership is authorized to replace the prematurely worn timing chain. I would love to see them replace the unit with a 3rd gen 3.5 but they won't even offer to cover the warranty because of the presence of sludge.
I only used Motorcraft oil and mostly filters but on occasion i would pick up a Fram filter, I always thought they were a better product, but according to the lead tech at the dealership i was informed that the use of a Fram filter would also be grounds for voiding the warranty?
If anyone can help I would really appreciate it, The truck has a lot of sentimental value to me as it was my dads and we did a lot of ranching and hunting together in that truck, if not I would just quit making the payments and let them keep it. Does anyone know of a possible reason that would cause a breakdown in the engine oils viscosity and build up sludge (outside of a lack of proper maintenance), perhaps overheating while lubricating the turbos? I also heard that idling for long periods of time would create this situation?
Or what the actual reason is for the premature wearing out of the chain? Is it the structural integrity of the steel or the lack of material comprising the chain , Or …
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
10-28-2015, 11:51 AM
#283
HI maplelakeduckslayer, Thank you for your response, I am having the truce delivered to another dealership maybe I can get some help there, No one at the dealership will even admit to knowing about a timing chain problem existing, even after I point out the TSB requiring them to replace the parts if the vehicle comes in with a p0016 code on it which Mine did. have there been any issues with the turbos burning the oil or breaking down the viscosity by overheating it?
03-17-2016, 11:52 PM
#285
Junior Member
Torture test!
If stretch is the problem, then I would guess hot restarts or quick engine spin-ups would the culprit...anything that adds inertial loads to valve sprint tension + friction.
I read that during the torture test tear down, the tensioner used up 30% of it's range (Ford was bragging on that). The problem with the torture test is the engine was held at constant rpm for 300 hours and did another ~5k miles dragging logs and towing trailers. The constant rpm test was to simulate 150k miles but it may not really simulate starting and stoping 20 times a day for a real 100k miles.
The next few years will be interesting for sure. I'm glad the OP contacted Ford so they can learn from the real world and adjust accordingly.
I read that during the torture test tear down, the tensioner used up 30% of it's range (Ford was bragging on that). The problem with the torture test is the engine was held at constant rpm for 300 hours and did another ~5k miles dragging logs and towing trailers. The constant rpm test was to simulate 150k miles but it may not really simulate starting and stoping 20 times a day for a real 100k miles.
The next few years will be interesting for sure. I'm glad the OP contacted Ford so they can learn from the real world and adjust accordingly.
I've always had this thought on the famed torture test.... Not necessarily grocery getting real world practical... Anyways!
So I am having this grinding sound VERY rarely... I am routine 5k mile oil intervals of FS oil... The sound I thought was the starter until the posted video (in this thread or another similar one) I called ford as I am in the 5year 60k mile warranty. And... It's not free. So basically, it's a covered part, (chains tensioner etc...) BUT! They must replicate this sound/noise/issue to diagnose. They won't take my word for it and tear it apart... If they can not replicate the diagnosis, the owner is stuck with the shop hours bill and diagnostic testing costs which aren't under warranty if they "can't find anything wrong", which happens so often. So basically. I'll be changing plugs and coil spring cap things (name?) this week and hoping my grinding noise magically goes away as well as my misfire and wrench light coming on....
2011 EB Fx4 f150 SCrew with 41,000 miles on it.... Oh and tranny is getting a little tougher at times.
Any suggestions since I'm still in warranty?
Mike-
Last edited by pyromedic; 03-17-2016 at 11:54 PM. Reason: Adding more
03-18-2016, 10:30 AM
#286
International man of Myst
The more I read, the more I'm convinced it's 80% sooting, and 20% dilution(often exacerbate by short cycling, leaky injectors, or bad HPFP). The solution appears to be a new grade of oil specifically designed to address this.
http://ballots.api.org/marketing/bal...ar-eBallot.pdf
http://www.gf-6.com/articles/gdi-soot-new-challenge
http://ballots.api.org/marketing/bal...ar-eBallot.pdf
http://www.gf-6.com/articles/gdi-soot-new-challenge
03-19-2016, 02:41 PM
#287
Junior Member
Which oil then!? :/
The more I read, the more I'm convinced it's 80% sooting, and 20% dilution(often exacerbate by short cycling, leaky injectors, or bad HPFP). The solution appears to be a new grade of oil specifically designed to address this.
http://ballots.api.org/marketing/bal...ar-eBallot.pdf
http://www.gf-6.com/articles/gdi-soot-new-challenge
http://ballots.api.org/marketing/bal...ar-eBallot.pdf
http://www.gf-6.com/articles/gdi-soot-new-challenge
I'm assuming stick with a full synthetic oil of premium brand such as royal purple or Mobil 1 and go back to the old school 3 month 3,000 mile regimen???
Thanks for input ahead of time
-Mike
A concerned EB owner.
P.s. There's a new transmission flash available for 2011 and up ecoboosts! I got mine yesterday and it is shifting like butter. It was a bit rough over the past few thousand miles.
04-22-2016, 08:46 AM
#288
Senior Member
Given all of this and the new push, is there a current recommended oil or additive to the oil (such as Lucas oil stabilizer) or to the fuel (octane booster etc) to help this issue?
I'm assuming stick with a full synthetic oil of premium brand such as royal purple or Mobil 1 and go back to the old school 3 month 3,000 mile regimen???
Thanks for input ahead of time
-Mike
A concerned EB owner.
P.s. There's a new transmission flash available for 2011 and up ecoboosts! I got mine yesterday and it is shifting like butter. It was a bit rough over the past few thousand miles.
I'm assuming stick with a full synthetic oil of premium brand such as royal purple or Mobil 1 and go back to the old school 3 month 3,000 mile regimen???
Thanks for input ahead of time
-Mike
A concerned EB owner.
P.s. There's a new transmission flash available for 2011 and up ecoboosts! I got mine yesterday and it is shifting like butter. It was a bit rough over the past few thousand miles.
More frequent oil changes with syn oil can't hurt. I do 5k but thinking about dropping to 4k and using a moly additive. I think the OLM is driven by the EPA, I know the tiny oil filters are. Just my humble opinion.
Indecently Moly in motor oil Parts per Million (PPM)
Mobil 1 85ppm
Penz ultra 67ppm
Penz plat 59ppm
Amzoil 82 ppm
Schaffers 309ppm
Royal purple, Valvoline, supertech les than 1ppm
04-23-2016, 10:30 AM
#289
Junior Member
More frequent oil changes with syn oil can't hurt. I do 5k but thinking about dropping to 4k and using a moly additive. I think the OLM is driven by the EPA, I know the tiny oil filters are. Just my humble opinion.
Indecently Moly in motor oil Parts per Million (PPM)
Mobil 1 85ppm
Penz ultra 67ppm
Penz plat 59ppm
Amzoil 82 ppm
Schaffers 309ppm
Royal purple, Valvoline, supertech les than 1ppm
Indecently Moly in motor oil Parts per Million (PPM)
Mobil 1 85ppm
Penz ultra 67ppm
Penz plat 59ppm
Amzoil 82 ppm
Schaffers 309ppm
Royal purple, Valvoline, supertech les than 1ppm
I guess I'm a bit uneducated on motor lubrication.
Thanks.
Mike
04-23-2016, 02:48 PM
#290
Senior Member
Moly is good. Higher is better.
I will switch brand for my eb(mobil 1 or Pennzoil) but use a Moly additive for my other vehicles. Here is the data.
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/...sallfinal.html
Last edited by bk117wrench; 04-23-2016 at 02:50 PM.
