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Another EcoBoost Race Truck Kicks Ass!

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Old 04-18-2012, 11:21 PM
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Default Another EcoBoost Race Truck Kicks ***!

For those who have doubted the suitability of the EcoBoost for desert racing, or even it's suitability as a Raptor engine, read on...



From Racing.Ford.com...
"La Roza Helps Pioneer EcoBoost Advantage"

Some Excerpts:
...
This weekend, another step forward in off road innovation will take place as Steve La Roza of Tracy, Calif., and the owner of La Roza Racing will debut his Ford EcoBoost powered F-150 Mini Trophy Truck in the Valley Off Road Racing Association (VORRA) at Prairie City OHV Park near Rancho Cordova, Calif.

“When I got back from running Dakar in March of 2011, I called Cliff Irey (Off Road Truck Program Manager) at Ford and asked him what was the best way for me to get back into the Ford Racing off road family,” said La Roza. “I had raced a 7200 truck for Ford in 2006 and 2007 and we won a championship in Best in the Desert. With my kids off at college and the chance to run Dakar I kind of switched gears.

“After I ran Dakar for a third time I started thinking and I thought it would be fun to get back into a truck in North America. One thing led to another and Cliff asked me if I would be interested in building an EcoBoost truck for the new Ecoboost program. I said sure that would be great, and the process began.

“I had heard good things about EcoBoost, and I knew a few people with EcoBoost in their daily drivers and when you get something that is bone stock and it is almost 450 hp and all that torque for this class, that is all you need. The good news is we really don’t have to drive it hard and wind it up to make it go fast. As long as we have a good chassis, the Ecoboost is a great choice for this class.”
...
From a racing standpoint, La Roza feels the increase in fuel mileage without sacrificing horsepower will be a competitive advantage.

“The advantage will be huge,” said La Roza. “Realistically, I think this is the wave of the future in this class. I am already getting phone calls from other competitors in Best in the Desert just wanting to see how this thing gets running and when it gets running because they are just waiting. As soon as the EcoBoost motor becomes available for them to buy and to put into their trucks, they are going to do it. The fuel mileage gain is going to be huge.

“I kind of feel like a guinea pig at first because I have been sitting around waiting for stuff to happen. We have only had couple of test days this week with the truck, and as it evolves we will see where it takes us,” said La Roza. “We have a 62-gallon fuel tank on the truck, and we are guessing that we will get somewhere around 9 to 10 miles a gallon in race form. With the additional testing we will do over the next few months that we anticipate for that Vegas to Reno (Aug. 16–18) we may only have to stop once, and that is really for a driver change and a splash of fuel.

“All the work is going to pay off and be worth it in the long run for sure,” said La Roza. “All the help I have got from Ford Racing over the years, I don’t mind pioneering this program at all. Not only is this a pioneering moment for Ford Racing but it is a pioneering moment for the entire 7200 class. This truck is about 4 inches shorter than the typical trophy truck. It is almost a trophy truck but with a V6 twin turbo. There are a lot of people in the class that just can’t wait to see this truck.”
Official results of Steve's first race in the truck this past weekend have not been posted, but rumor has it he kicked major ***! (As in 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd)
Old 04-18-2012, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pfbz
For those who have doubted the suitability of the EcoBoost for desert racing, or even it's suitability as a Raptor engine, read on...

From Racing.Ford.com...
"La Roza Helps Pioneer EcoBoost Advantage"

Some Excerpts:
...
This weekend, another step forward in off road innovation will take place as Steve La Roza of Tracy, Calif., and the owner of La Roza Racing will debut his Ford EcoBoost powered F-150 Mini Trophy Truck in the Valley Off Road Racing Association (VORRA) at Prairie City OHV Park near Rancho Cordova, Calif.

“When I got back from running Dakar in March of 2011, I called Cliff Irey (Off Road Truck Program Manager) at Ford and asked him what was the best way for me to get back into the Ford Racing off road family,” said La Roza. “I had raced a 7200 truck for Ford in 2006 and 2007 and we won a championship in Best in the Desert. With my kids off at college and the chance to run Dakar I kind of switched gears.

“After I ran Dakar for a third time I started thinking and I thought it would be fun to get back into a truck in North America. One thing led to another and Cliff asked me if I would be interested in building an EcoBoost truck for the new Ecoboost program. I said sure that would be great, and the process began.

“I had heard good things about EcoBoost, and I knew a few people with EcoBoost in their daily drivers and when you get something that is bone stock and it is almost 450 hp and all that torque for this class, that is all you need. The good news is we really don’t have to drive it hard and wind it up to make it go fast. As long as we have a good chassis, the Ecoboost is a great choice for this class.”
...
From a racing standpoint, La Roza feels the increase in fuel mileage without sacrificing horsepower will be a competitive advantage.

“The advantage will be huge,” said La Roza. “Realistically, I think this is the wave of the future in this class. I am already getting phone calls from other competitors in Best in the Desert just wanting to see how this thing gets running and when it gets running because they are just waiting. As soon as the EcoBoost motor becomes available for them to buy and to put into their trucks, they are going to do it. The fuel mileage gain is going to be huge.

“I kind of feel like a guinea pig at first because I have been sitting around waiting for stuff to happen. We have only had couple of test days this week with the truck, and as it evolves we will see where it takes us,” said La Roza. “We have a 62-gallon fuel tank on the truck, and we are guessing that we will get somewhere around 9 to 10 miles a gallon in race form. With the additional testing we will do over the next few months that we anticipate for that Vegas to Reno (Aug. 16–18) we may only have to stop once, and that is really for a driver change and a splash of fuel.

“All the work is going to pay off and be worth it in the long run for sure,” said La Roza. “All the help I have got from Ford Racing over the years, I don’t mind pioneering this program at all. Not only is this a pioneering moment for Ford Racing but it is a pioneering moment for the entire 7200 class. This truck is about 4 inches shorter than the typical trophy truck. It is almost a trophy truck but with a V6 twin turbo. There are a lot of people in the class that just can’t wait to see this truck.”


Official results of Steve's first race in the truck this past weekend have not been posted, but rumor has it he kicked major ***! (As in 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd)
I'm not sure what you mean by 'another', the only other Eco race trucks that I know of were the two used during the Eco torture test, they were the only two in their class and only one finished.

There is much more that's different between mini trophy (class 6/7200) and TT than 4 inches. These mini's weigh in at less than 4000lbs. That's 2000lbs less than a raptor and minimum of 3000lbs less than a trophy truck. As such i dont see it 'proving viability as a raptor powerplant' and i dont know where they got their facts but the Eco is nowhere near 450hp stock.

http://www.chromjuwelen.com/de/netwo...***-67200.html

I don't doubt it will do well since there aren't any 6cyl engines that can compare to the Eco.

Last edited by WarSurfer; 04-19-2012 at 12:20 AM.
Old 04-19-2012, 12:05 AM
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EXACTLY where the aftermarket will get its R&D from!!! Nothing like factory supported race teams building on a production platform. The seemingly unlimited (to us) budget of these race teams WILL pioneer the concepts that will find its way to the after-market undoubtably. Off road racing demands the most reliable performance from any given power plant in the automotive universe. Hold on tight folks, **** is going to get silly if there is as much interest in the EB as suggested by this article.
Old 04-19-2012, 12:19 AM
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Seems like we can pretty much count on WarSurfer's EcoBoost negativity

Yes, the article has some inaccuracies... Pretty common when the media gets there hands on it.

As per 7200 Class rules, the engines are sealed EcoBoost engines from Turn Key Engines.. LaRoza's is tuned (without breaking seals) by DanZio Performance. I think the truck itself was built by Mason Motorsports.

400+ HP & Torque are listed as spec's on DanZio's, but the actual numbers (proprietary) are purportedly much higher.

450HP should be easily achievable without any internal mods... Just intake, exhaust, and ECU tuning.

Last edited by pfbz; 04-19-2012 at 12:39 AM.
Old 04-19-2012, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by pfbz

We can pretty much always count on WarSurfer's EcoBoost negativity
Lol

I'm not being negative. I don't see how you can say that since the engine does well in a 4000lb truck, it automatically would do well in a 6000lb truck.

Nobody said the Eco couldn't be driven off road or that the Eco couldn't move the Raptor around. My opinion is that in its current configuration it wouldn't do it as well as the larger engine currently offered. With some tweaks I fully admit it would dust the 6.2 - but that Eco doesn't exist yet.
Old 04-19-2012, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by WarSurfer
Lol

It's from Ford, so it's totally unbiased. I'm not sure what you mean by 'another', the only other Eco race trucks that I know of were the two used during the Eco torture test, they were the only two in their class and only one finished.

There is much more that's different between mini trophy (class 6/7200) and TT than 4 inches. These mini's weigh in at less than 4000lbs. That's 2000lbs less than a raptor and minimum of 3000lbs less than a trophy truck. So much for viability as a raptor powerplant and the Eco is nowhere near 450hp stock.

http://www.chromjuwelen.com/de/netwo...***-67200.html

While I LOVE the thinking behind SVT with the Raptor (I even capitalized it)....comparing it to a race rig or even legit prerunner, it's an "urban assault truck" at best. That's not a slam.....so hold off on the internet flaming. I'm not so sure anyone here is going to get butt-hurt that the motor isn't being tested in the trophy class. As far as the 450hp...ya, bone stock doesn't mesh but I'd like to see a flywheel dyno on a retail-tuned EB....Might surprise you on the #'s. A <4.0L DI twin turbo v6 IS a disappointment, I mean Nissan has likely admitted by now that the GTR is a total flop compared to say, the 7.0L Z06 king ding-a-ling. The only thing that saves the GTR on #'s is its AWD.....considering the weight is like, identical to the Z06.....ok, maybe the GTR weighs 700+ lbs more. Wait, you cant have a V6 pull any kind of competitive respectability in a heavier vehicle, my bad. It's best you sharpen your "bubble-burster" if you want to use it.



all in fun.
Old 04-19-2012, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mr_diggs

While I LOVE the thinking behind SVT with the Raptor (I even capitalized it)....comparing it to a race rig or even legit prerunner, it's an "urban assault truck" at best. That's not a slam.....so hold off on the internet flaming. I'm not so sure anyone here is going to get butt-hurt that the motor isn't being tested in the trophy class. As far as the 450hp...ya, bone stock doesn't mesh but I'd like to see a flywheel dyno on a retail-tuned EB....Might surprise you on the #'s. A <4.0L DI twin turbo v6 IS a disappointment, I mean Nissan has likely admitted by now that the GTR is a total flop compared to say, the 7.0L Z06 king ding-a-ling. The only thing that saves the GTR on #'s is its AWD.....considering the weight is like, identical to the Z06.....ok, maybe the GTR weighs 700+ lbs more. Wait, you cant have a V6 pull any kind of competitive respectability in a heavier vehicle, my bad. It's best you sharpen your "bubble-burster" if you want to use it.

all in fun.
You aren't bursting my bubble. The GTR is underrated to say the least. It would not pull the times it's pulling if it were truly at the advertised hp. I never said a 6cyl couldn't outperform a v8, I said the ecoboost doesn't outperform the Ford 6.2, because it doesn't. And the Eco is NOT in the same class as the GTR engine - the GTR is fully forged, the Eco isn't.

You Eco guys are funny. You always bring up the 2jz, RB26det(t) and the GTR knowing full well those are factory forged engines. When I bring up the hyper pistons and powdered rods on the Eco someone invariably brings up the Buick GN, the problem is that the GN 'only' produces around 600-650hp on pump gas. While those numbers are impressive, the 6.2 can get to 650 without forced induction.

Oh, the Z06 handed the GTR it's *** once you installed tires equal to what the GTR comes with from the factory. The worst thing GM did to the Z06 and the ZR1 are the ****ty run-flat tires.

Last edited by WarSurfer; 04-19-2012 at 03:39 AM.
Old 04-19-2012, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by WarSurfer
...the problem is that the GN 'only' produces around 600-650hp on pump gas. While those numbers are impressive, the 6.2 can get to 650 without forced induction...
So can a 350 Chevy, but I'm not sure why that's applicable here. The difference is that the GN does it without touching the long-block.
Old 04-19-2012, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by pfbz
For those who have doubted the suitability of the EcoBoost for desert racing, or even it's suitability as a Raptor engine, read on...

From Racing.Ford.com...
"La Roza Helps Pioneer EcoBoost Advantage"

Some Excerpts:
...
This weekend, another step forward in off road innovation will take place as Steve La Roza of Tracy, Calif., and the owner of La Roza Racing will debut his Ford EcoBoost powered F-150 Mini Trophy Truck in the Valley Off Road Racing Association (VORRA) at Prairie City OHV Park near Rancho Cordova, Calif.

“When I got back from running Dakar in March of 2011, I called Cliff Irey (Off Road Truck Program Manager) at Ford and asked him what was the best way for me to get back into the Ford Racing off road family,” said La Roza. “I had raced a 7200 truck for Ford in 2006 and 2007 and we won a championship in Best in the Desert. With my kids off at college and the chance to run Dakar I kind of switched gears.

“After I ran Dakar for a third time I started thinking and I thought it would be fun to get back into a truck in North America. One thing led to another and Cliff asked me if I would be interested in building an EcoBoost truck for the new Ecoboost program. I said sure that would be great, and the process began.

“I had heard good things about EcoBoost, and I knew a few people with EcoBoost in their daily drivers and when you get something that is bone stock and it is almost 450 hp and all that torque for this class, that is all you need. The good news is we really don’t have to drive it hard and wind it up to make it go fast. As long as we have a good chassis, the Ecoboost is a great choice for this class.”
...
From a racing standpoint, La Roza feels the increase in fuel mileage without sacrificing horsepower will be a competitive advantage.

“The advantage will be huge,” said La Roza. “Realistically, I think this is the wave of the future in this class. I am already getting phone calls from other competitors in Best in the Desert just wanting to see how this thing gets running and when it gets running because they are just waiting. As soon as the EcoBoost motor becomes available for them to buy and to put into their trucks, they are going to do it. The fuel mileage gain is going to be huge.

“I kind of feel like a guinea pig at first because I have been sitting around waiting for stuff to happen. We have only had couple of test days this week with the truck, and as it evolves we will see where it takes us,” said La Roza. “We have a 62-gallon fuel tank on the truck, and we are guessing that we will get somewhere around 9 to 10 miles a gallon in race form. With the additional testing we will do over the next few months that we anticipate for that Vegas to Reno (Aug. 16–18) we may only have to stop once, and that is really for a driver change and a splash of fuel.

“All the work is going to pay off and be worth it in the long run for sure,” said La Roza. “All the help I have got from Ford Racing over the years, I don’t mind pioneering this program at all. Not only is this a pioneering moment for Ford Racing but it is a pioneering moment for the entire 7200 class. This truck is about 4 inches shorter than the typical trophy truck. It is almost a trophy truck but with a V6 twin turbo. There are a lot of people in the class that just can’t wait to see this truck.”


Official results of Steve's first race in the truck this past weekend have not been posted, but rumor has it he kicked major ***! (As in 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd)
Thanks pfbz!
Would love to see the highlights for that!
Figures the arguments would start right off the bat. :-(
Maybe that guy that argued with me, in the last Raptor/Ecoboost thread, that there are no turbocharged desert machines, will come and read up. I was going to pass on DanZio's website to prove him wrong but figured why bother.
Old 04-19-2012, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by engineermike

So can a 350 Chevy, but I'm not sure why that's applicable here. The difference is that the GN does it without touching the long-block.
It's applicable because we are talking about running on the ragged edge in a vehicle that weighs ~3,600lbs vs running on the ragged edge in a vehicle that weights ~5,500lbs, or in the case of a Raptor, 6,000lbs.

The load factors are much higher in the heavier vehicle and pushing an engine that close to its limits will expose weak parts much faster in a heavier vehicle than in a lighter one.

It's the same argument for running hard off road, load factors are much higher running hard in the sand than say on the street. Anytime you increase the load you increase the chance for detonation. Even the guy in the article talks about how the reliability of the eco's power output is one of the main reasons for choosing that powerplant, in addition to the power output itself and power delivery.

My point is, while an outstanding engine, it isn't immune to things that deleteriously impact ANY engine when run hard. The 6.2 ran the Baja at around 600hp and suffered no ill effect. I doubt very seriously you could do the same with a 600hp Eco simply because it would have to work that much harder and would be that much closer to its 'limits'.

600bhp may or may not be the upper limit in the Eco, but it is a good bellwether given similar engines with similar internals and their known upper limits. There is no magic here, you will only go so far with hyper pistons on pump gas running F/I.


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