2011 ecoboost noise on start up
10-19-2014, 08:44 PM
#621
10-20-2014, 01:06 AM
#622
Senior Member
Good thread everyone. It seems Ford is using oil pressure to supply the pressure against the cam chain tensioner which is fine, BUT, are they using any mechanical means the keep the chain tight after the engine is shut off? The motorcycles that I would work on (long cam chains) had a tensioner that was spring loaded, but also had a one way mechanical "lock" that would keep the chain tensioner from losing ground. Older bikes had manual adjusted tensioners while newer bikes had "automatic" cam chain tensioners.
Rare as it was, if a tensioner would fail and lose that "mechanical lock" ability, the cam chain could push back the tensioner and do some slapping and it would sound JUST LIKE this cold noise start sounds. Just take an 80's Suzuki and turn the knurled tensioner **** to the left while it is idling and you will hear the noise.
So, why would it happen more in cold weather? With the oil cold, the cams are harder to rotate which gives more slop on the tensioner side. More slop, more slap.
Why is it intermittent? When you shut off you engine, the cams will want to rotate forward slightly or backward slightly. The reason they do this is because the valve spring pressure is pushing against cam lobes as the cam turns. Cams like to "park" at the position of least valve spring force. So, you stop your engine, the cams rotate slightly forward which tightens the back side of the cam chain, which pushes the tensioner back. NOW, when you start it, the oil pressure takes a second to get that tensioner pushed out against the chain.
Rare as it was, if a tensioner would fail and lose that "mechanical lock" ability, the cam chain could push back the tensioner and do some slapping and it would sound JUST LIKE this cold noise start sounds. Just take an 80's Suzuki and turn the knurled tensioner **** to the left while it is idling and you will hear the noise.
So, why would it happen more in cold weather? With the oil cold, the cams are harder to rotate which gives more slop on the tensioner side. More slop, more slap.
Why is it intermittent? When you shut off you engine, the cams will want to rotate forward slightly or backward slightly. The reason they do this is because the valve spring pressure is pushing against cam lobes as the cam turns. Cams like to "park" at the position of least valve spring force. So, you stop your engine, the cams rotate slightly forward which tightens the back side of the cam chain, which pushes the tensioner back. NOW, when you start it, the oil pressure takes a second to get that tensioner pushed out against the chain.
Last edited by oldwrench; 10-20-2014 at 01:10 AM.
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Stang05U (10-23-2014)
10-20-2014, 01:26 AM
#623
Senior Member
So, how do you fix this? Long cam chains need more tensioning because they have more links to wear. It seems Ford wants to wait until the tensioner has stroked out and no longer can keep the chain tight even while running. I believe this start up noise is the chain/tensioner slapping until oil pressure builds to push the tensioner against the chain.
Why didn't it make noise when new? I would have to say it is because the chain had not gotten loose yet so it couldn't slap around much.
If you could get a large version of the Suzuki tensioner (EB chain is darn long) and install it, you would never have this noise until the chain is WAY worn out.
It is just a bummer to hear this noise every time you start your truck. Like someone said.....it's PAINFUL!
Why didn't it make noise when new? I would have to say it is because the chain had not gotten loose yet so it couldn't slap around much.
If you could get a large version of the Suzuki tensioner (EB chain is darn long) and install it, you would never have this noise until the chain is WAY worn out.
It is just a bummer to hear this noise every time you start your truck. Like someone said.....it's PAINFUL!
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Stang05U (10-23-2014)
10-20-2014, 10:58 AM
#624
What is wrong is the lil sprocket in the valley increases the length of the chain by 1/3 double the bending and load much like a block and tackle with more pulleys added. I believe that is the area receiving the shock load due to the HPFP. Notice on the 2.7L. OEM went back to separate chains for each head with a different design concentric fuel pump instead of plunger.
That little chain guide pulley on a Honda motor cycle motor with its aluminum pin set down low between the cylinders in the lower crankcase was its timing chain undoing also.
The more that is added to a mechanical configuration, the more it stands to be a screw up.
That little chain guide pulley on a Honda motor cycle motor with its aluminum pin set down low between the cylinders in the lower crankcase was its timing chain undoing also.
The more that is added to a mechanical configuration, the more it stands to be a screw up.
Last edited by papa tiger; 10-20-2014 at 11:57 AM.
10-20-2014, 07:13 PM
#627
Senior Member
Update October 20th 2014
I finally connected with the owner of the selling dealership today. He informed me that he gave his service manager the go ahead to do the TSB and also figure out my issue with the turbo howl/groan (a different issue present when purchased).
He explained they were just trying to sort out the logistics to get my truck to them... They are coming to pick it up once all the parts are in...
Ironically they have another truck now with the same timing chain issue.
Oh yeah, he specifically mentioned my videos too! He said I posted a lot of them, lol.
If they are willing to fix this truck like they have said then I'll be a very happy Ford Ecoboost owner once again... Until the noise comes back and I have a sinking feeling it's going too..
I finally connected with the owner of the selling dealership today. He informed me that he gave his service manager the go ahead to do the TSB and also figure out my issue with the turbo howl/groan (a different issue present when purchased).
He explained they were just trying to sort out the logistics to get my truck to them... They are coming to pick it up once all the parts are in...
Ironically they have another truck now with the same timing chain issue.
Oh yeah, he specifically mentioned my videos too! He said I posted a lot of them, lol.
If they are willing to fix this truck like they have said then I'll be a very happy Ford Ecoboost owner once again... Until the noise comes back and I have a sinking feeling it's going too..
10-20-2014, 08:23 PM
#628
Yeah, I think Cord is right for the vacuum pump... I had mine replaced and at the end, before they changed it, the sound was horrible!!! I think it's starts again to do the same. If you wanna know if it's really the vacuum pump, depress repeatedly the brake pedal until you deplete the vacuum enough. If it's the pump, you'll hear that noise every time you depress the brake pedal few times... Hope this help!
10-23-2014, 10:37 AM
#629
Update October 20th 2014 I finally connected with the owner of the selling dealership today. He informed me that he gave his service manager the go ahead to do the TSB and also figure out my issue with the turbo howl/groan (a different issue present when purchased). He explained they were just trying to sort out the logistics to get my truck to them... They are coming to pick it up once all the parts are in... Ironically they have another truck now with the same timing chain issue. Oh yeah, he specifically mentioned my videos too! He said I posted a lot of them, lol. If they are willing to fix this truck like they have said then I'll be a very happy Ford Ecoboost owner once again... Until the noise comes back and I have a sinking feeling it's going too..
10-23-2014, 11:52 AM
#630
Senior Member
Any news ??
Hopefully they call today.