01-22-2015, 03:49 PM
Last edit by: IB Advertising
Issue: Is your F-150’s engine idling loudly?
The eight cylinder engines are notorious for this due to the cam phasers. For the unaware, cam phasers are responsible for adjusting the camshaft position to improve fuel injection into the cylinders, which leads to better fuel efficiency when idling and the ability to draw power from the engine more quickly. However, after anywhere from 60,000-100,000 miles, they also cause rough, loud idling due to wear and tear.
While the cause can typically be linked to the cam phasers, solutions to the problem vary widely. Some of the top recommendations include:
Read the full thread to find out which of these solutions is best for your truck.
The eight cylinder engines are notorious for this due to the cam phasers. For the unaware, cam phasers are responsible for adjusting the camshaft position to improve fuel injection into the cylinders, which leads to better fuel efficiency when idling and the ability to draw power from the engine more quickly. However, after anywhere from 60,000-100,000 miles, they also cause rough, loud idling due to wear and tear.
While the cause can typically be linked to the cam phasers, solutions to the problem vary widely. Some of the top recommendations include:
- While the noise is annoying, the cam phaser itself isn’t actually breaking. If you can live with it, your F-150 will be fine.
- If the truck is under warranty, bring it to the dealership.
- It’s possible they may need to either replace the cam phasers, or even the cam phasers and camshaft as well.
- Install a coil spring behind each cam phaser to reduce the rattle as it moves.
- Swap the cam phasers from a larger engine so that it sits more tightly, reducing the rattle.
Read the full thread to find out which of these solutions is best for your truck.
5.4L cam phasers.. What goes bad?
06-15-2014, 10:57 PM
#181
This is my first post. My 2004 FX4 5.4L just went belly up. Cam phasers on the left side
went out and took a lot of hardware with it. Repair was 5371.00, didn't include any hidden problems. So I went with a new engine, 7375.00 out the door, installed. The engine is from a outfit called Eagle. Been with this shop for a long time and trust the owner's judgment. I think Ford needs to recall this engine and make its owners whole. I love this truck, wouldn't buy anything else. I like not having a loan!!!
went out and took a lot of hardware with it. Repair was 5371.00, didn't include any hidden problems. So I went with a new engine, 7375.00 out the door, installed. The engine is from a outfit called Eagle. Been with this shop for a long time and trust the owner's judgment. I think Ford needs to recall this engine and make its owners whole. I love this truck, wouldn't buy anything else. I like not having a loan!!!
10-20-2014, 11:58 AM
#182
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06 f150 xlt 4x4 (5.6?)
This is great to know - I think the vehicle was a 5.6?
I work for a local 4x4 shop and have actually worked on a few trucks with this issue. But with mine (06 f150 xlt 4x4) I decided to try something different and save some money. Its not really a hard repair to do just time consuming really. I removed my cam phasers and and took them to work and let them soak in a mixture of marven mystery oil, Bcem, seafoam and solvent for a few days then throughly cleaned them out. the build up in the oil passages on them was amazing and thats what uasually causes the issue is not using the proper oil in your vehicle. After cleaning them very very good, I ordered on of comp cams phaser kits and installed that before installing them back in my truck. Yes i did have to do a little tuning cause it now limits the truck from going 60 degrees retarded. But i have been driving the truck for about three months now with not a problem at all. This is something i experimented with and its up to you to see if you wana try it.
11-14-2014, 02:24 PM
#183
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In reality, it is the aluminum blocking plate on the oil pump, that begins this whole issue. Due to the design, the result is that the oil circulation does not cover the phasers well enough, they are continiously oil starved, which, in turn causes damage to the timing components as well. I have pulled off timing covers to reveal that the chain has worn a groove into the cover. This issue is further exacerbated by oil changes not being done often enough, with the proper weight of oil and a MOTORCRAFT filer.
I've been a service writer for more than 20 years and I can't tell you how many of these engines we've done. AS currently, Jasper engine is the only company that has updated the design on this. Installing Ford OE phasers, generally, won't resolve your issue permanently.
I've been a service writer for more than 20 years and I can't tell you how many of these engines we've done. AS currently, Jasper engine is the only company that has updated the design on this. Installing Ford OE phasers, generally, won't resolve your issue permanently.
11-15-2014, 10:48 AM
#184
In reality, it is the aluminum blocking plate on the oil pump, that begins this whole issue. Due to the design, the result is that the oil circulation does not cover the phasers well enough, they are continiously oil starved, which, in turn causes damage to the timing components as well. I have pulled off timing covers to reveal that the chain has worn a groove into the cover. This issue is further exacerbated by oil changes not being done often enough, with the proper weight of oil and a MOTORCRAFT filer. I've been a service writer for more than 20 years and I can't tell you how many of these engines we've done. AS currently, Jasper engine is the only company that has updated the design on this. Installing Ford OE phasers, generally, won't resolve your issue permanently.
11-19-2014, 08:08 PM
#185
Originally Posted by Megan Winebrenner
In reality, it is the aluminum blocking plate on the oil pump, that begins this whole issue. Due to the design, the result is that the oil circulation does not cover the phasers well enough, they are continiously oil starved, which, in turn causes damage to the timing components as well. I have pulled off timing covers to reveal that the chain has worn a groove into the cover. This issue is further exacerbated by oil changes not being done often enough, with the proper weight of oil and a MOTORCRAFT filer.
I've been a service writer for more than 20 years and I can't tell you how many of these engines we've done. AS currently, Jasper engine is the only company that has updated the design on this. Installing Ford OE phasers, generally, won't resolve your issue permanently.
I've been a service writer for more than 20 years and I can't tell you how many of these engines we've done. AS currently, Jasper engine is the only company that has updated the design on this. Installing Ford OE phasers, generally, won't resolve your issue permanently.
(was 5.4 oil pump location "un-submerged in oil" expediting wear - or is design wrong with aluminum vs. steel plate -)
02-25-2015, 11:01 PM
#186
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Hello all. New member here with lots of questions.
2004 F-150 5.4, 131,000 trouble free miles (except the seized spark plugs, fuel pump sender module, and cracked RH exhaust manifold that most everyone has had).
Here is some background:
I've had this truck for 10 years and I am the only one to turn wrenches on it. I just bought a new 2014 F-350 6.7 and then placed the 2004 F150 for sale. The 2004 had a code for VVT so I figured I would replace it since it was only 30 minutes and $50.00.
BIG MISTAKE! The T27 socket fell into the engine. I video camera scoped for it. Not found. Drained oil. Scoped. Not found. Knowing it was more than likely a timing cover pull, I took chance that it was magically and permanently lodged somewhere and started the engine. I WAS WRONG. The drivers chain is now broken. (I have the drivers valve cover removed so far) I know I will need to do new chains, guides, tentioners, seals, gaskets, and will the water pump at the same time.
Question #1:
When the chain broke it never passed idle speed. Did I damage heads/valves/lifter?
Question #2:
Should I do new cam phasers at the same time "since I'm there"? They are $115 each. I never had the "Diesel Sound" that so many speak of. (Keep in mind that this vehicle is redundant to me, had no cam phaser issues prior, and was for sale)
Question #3:
Should I replace oil pump at the same time "since I'm there"? They are $105. (Keep in mind that the vehicle is redundant, had no oil pump issues, and is for sale)
Thank you in advance!
2004 F-150 5.4, 131,000 trouble free miles (except the seized spark plugs, fuel pump sender module, and cracked RH exhaust manifold that most everyone has had).
Here is some background:
I've had this truck for 10 years and I am the only one to turn wrenches on it. I just bought a new 2014 F-350 6.7 and then placed the 2004 F150 for sale. The 2004 had a code for VVT so I figured I would replace it since it was only 30 minutes and $50.00.
BIG MISTAKE! The T27 socket fell into the engine. I video camera scoped for it. Not found. Drained oil. Scoped. Not found. Knowing it was more than likely a timing cover pull, I took chance that it was magically and permanently lodged somewhere and started the engine. I WAS WRONG. The drivers chain is now broken. (I have the drivers valve cover removed so far) I know I will need to do new chains, guides, tentioners, seals, gaskets, and will the water pump at the same time.
Question #1:
When the chain broke it never passed idle speed. Did I damage heads/valves/lifter?
Question #2:
Should I do new cam phasers at the same time "since I'm there"? They are $115 each. I never had the "Diesel Sound" that so many speak of. (Keep in mind that this vehicle is redundant to me, had no cam phaser issues prior, and was for sale)
Question #3:
Should I replace oil pump at the same time "since I'm there"? They are $105. (Keep in mind that the vehicle is redundant, had no oil pump issues, and is for sale)
Thank you in advance!
Last edited by HappyCamper2015; 02-25-2015 at 11:57 PM.
03-03-2015, 12:28 PM
#187
I see that a lot of folks with the 5.4L are worried that the ticking noise and diesel sounding engine means that their engine is about to go. I bought my f150 new in 2010 with the 5.4L and it ticked and sounded rough like a diesel since day one, and now have 72,000 miles with no cam phaser issue (knock on wood).
Also, I don’t think I have heard an f150 with the 5.4L that didn’t sound like a diesel, especially on a cold morning start-up. Most I have heard also have a slight to strong tick. Perhaps these engines are just loud.
This post is not to take away from those who have had the cam phaser go on their trucks but just to share that there are A LOT of noisy 5.4L’s out there that are going strong, without any cam phaser issues.
Also, I don’t think I have heard an f150 with the 5.4L that didn’t sound like a diesel, especially on a cold morning start-up. Most I have heard also have a slight to strong tick. Perhaps these engines are just loud.
This post is not to take away from those who have had the cam phaser go on their trucks but just to share that there are A LOT of noisy 5.4L’s out there that are going strong, without any cam phaser issues.
03-09-2015, 07:12 AM
#188
I posted in the other thread but Ill add here.
2009-5.4
I bought new.
Always Motorcraft oil & filters
I have always done all my maintenance/service work the last 25yrs.
At 8x,xxx miles
March 2014
heard a very small sound difference at top of engine .
Was told I shouldn't be concerned from guy at the ford co.
Started researching online & noticed the 5.4 3v were having issues & so I waited to see.
November 2014
I was turning around in my yard my truck started stumbling & acted like it was going to shut off. I increased the throttle & the stumble stopped. I then noticed that the engine sounded like it was going to throw a rod on the passenger side of the engine/truck. (was told it was likely the chain had slapped the timing cover & was a sign the cam phaser issue)
A couple hours later I hooked to my boat/trailer to relocate it in the yard & noticed that when I slightly increased the throttle against the load the knock sound (almost a preignition "type" rattle sound) was noticeable. (Also noticeable when throttling into the brakes)
The next day when I went to start my truck the engine went into a long start no-start-mode so I turned the key off, 15min later I tried again & the engine started. I couldnt get the noise to recur after start up so I let it idle for roughly 30min before trying to get the noise to recur but still nothing.
I drove it a few miles & the noise was very lite sounding. I let the engine run roughly another 30min & no change in sound.
March2015
90,xxx miles
I drove my truck around town & went home, about 5minutes later I started the truck & it started dieseling so I shut the engine down, pushed the throttle to the floor so to spin the oil pump without starting (neat trick I read somewhere as the engine will not start at WOT).
I released the throttle & let the engine start & then I drove it to town.
A day or 2 later I let the truck warm up some (winter) & then headed towards town. Well something new happened, the engine shut off going down the road at about 50mph. A oil light had lit up (checked oil & was ok) & the engine would not restart. I ended up unhooking the battery & let it sit for a bit before reconnecting & then the engine started up.
(It still has that preignition "type" rattle sound if you listen for it)
Ive been pricing parts.
I never had mechanical issues with the 2v 5.4 truck I put 150,xxx miles on & sold it with over 200,xxx.
SAD
.
2009-5.4
I bought new.
Always Motorcraft oil & filters
I have always done all my maintenance/service work the last 25yrs.
At 8x,xxx miles
March 2014
heard a very small sound difference at top of engine .
Was told I shouldn't be concerned from guy at the ford co.
Started researching online & noticed the 5.4 3v were having issues & so I waited to see.
November 2014
I was turning around in my yard my truck started stumbling & acted like it was going to shut off. I increased the throttle & the stumble stopped. I then noticed that the engine sounded like it was going to throw a rod on the passenger side of the engine/truck. (was told it was likely the chain had slapped the timing cover & was a sign the cam phaser issue)
A couple hours later I hooked to my boat/trailer to relocate it in the yard & noticed that when I slightly increased the throttle against the load the knock sound (almost a preignition "type" rattle sound) was noticeable. (Also noticeable when throttling into the brakes)
The next day when I went to start my truck the engine went into a long start no-start-mode so I turned the key off, 15min later I tried again & the engine started. I couldnt get the noise to recur after start up so I let it idle for roughly 30min before trying to get the noise to recur but still nothing.
I drove it a few miles & the noise was very lite sounding. I let the engine run roughly another 30min & no change in sound.
March2015
90,xxx miles
I drove my truck around town & went home, about 5minutes later I started the truck & it started dieseling so I shut the engine down, pushed the throttle to the floor so to spin the oil pump without starting (neat trick I read somewhere as the engine will not start at WOT).
I released the throttle & let the engine start & then I drove it to town.
A day or 2 later I let the truck warm up some (winter) & then headed towards town. Well something new happened, the engine shut off going down the road at about 50mph. A oil light had lit up (checked oil & was ok) & the engine would not restart. I ended up unhooking the battery & let it sit for a bit before reconnecting & then the engine started up.
(It still has that preignition "type" rattle sound if you listen for it)
Ive been pricing parts.
I never had mechanical issues with the 2v 5.4 truck I put 150,xxx miles on & sold it with over 200,xxx.
SAD
.
Last edited by Fordjunkync; 03-09-2015 at 07:37 AM.
03-10-2015, 12:54 PM
#189
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I just got done with these same issues. I have a 2004 5.4 3v with 130,000. I am the only one who has ever turned wrenches on the truck. I had all these same issues. Ultimately I had a broken passengers side chain guide. Based upon your detailed descriptions, and my experiences, I believe the following to be your causes:
"heard a very small sound difference at top of engine".[/COLOR]
At 8x,xxx miles is when your problems started. More than likely the chain guide broke causing slapping. Which side of the engine? Does it go away after 10 seconds or so?
"I was turning around in my yard my truck started stumbling & acted like it was going to shut off. I increased the throttle & the stumble stopped. I then noticed that the engine sounded like it was going to throw a rod on the passenger side of the engine/truck. (was told it was likely the chain had slapped the timing cover & was a sign the cam phaser issue)"
They are right. Your phasers are probably fine, but change them when you are in there. You will see wear on the cover where it was dragging. Increasing the throttle allowed more oil to be pumped into the chain guide. Did you change oil just prior to this? Phasers won't cause chain slap, they can't loosen the chain that much. But a broken guide (or weak tensioner) will not be able to hold the chain tight. Especially at lower RPM's.
"A couple hours later I hooked to my boat/trailer to relocate it in the yard & noticed that when I slightly increased the throttle against the load the knock sound (almost a preignition "type" rattle sound) was noticeable. (Also noticeable when throttling into the brakes)"
You were at low RPM's. If you go to neutral and rev the engine, it goes away! Right?! Have you had any codes related to VCT or Can Shaft Position Sensors? If so, these are not the cause, but they are 'seeing' the slap and will throw a code. Revving the engine increases the pressure on the tensioner and tightens the chains.
"The next day when I went to start my truck the engine went into a long start no-start-mode so I turned the key off, 15min later I tried again & the engine started."
This is your fuel pump driver module. If you drop the spare you will see that it is heavily corroded. Have you ever seen your temperature gauge spike to max hot, even though the engine was not over heating?
"90,xxx miles
I drove my truck around town & went home, about 5minutes later I started the truck & it started dieseling"
Timing issues. Computer is trying to adjust air fuel mixtures. You may have has a MAF sensor code. The computer is adjusting air and fuel. Your MAF and Fuel Pump Driver Module is working pretty hard now to compensate.
"A day or 2 later I let the truck warm up some (winter) & then headed towards town. Well something new happened, the engine shut off going down the road at about 50mph. A oil light had lit up (checked oil & was ok) & the engine would not restart."
This was my next problem too. Fuel pump driver module problem. Mine stalled 10+ times on the way home from work. Stopped, waited, and it restarted. I suspect that either the FPDM had cooled down, OR there were broken pieces of plastic chain guide in the pan that were getting sucked up by the oil pick up tube causing oil pressure problems. Shutting the engine off allowed the plastic to be release and fall to the bottom of the pan, restoring pressure/flow.
"(It still has that preignition "type" rattle sound if you listen for it)"
This is the broken chain guide.
My pre ignition, and dieseling sounds were alway more predominate just after an oil change and also when towing, especially when towing uphill.
"heard a very small sound difference at top of engine".[/COLOR]
At 8x,xxx miles is when your problems started. More than likely the chain guide broke causing slapping. Which side of the engine? Does it go away after 10 seconds or so?
"I was turning around in my yard my truck started stumbling & acted like it was going to shut off. I increased the throttle & the stumble stopped. I then noticed that the engine sounded like it was going to throw a rod on the passenger side of the engine/truck. (was told it was likely the chain had slapped the timing cover & was a sign the cam phaser issue)"
They are right. Your phasers are probably fine, but change them when you are in there. You will see wear on the cover where it was dragging. Increasing the throttle allowed more oil to be pumped into the chain guide. Did you change oil just prior to this? Phasers won't cause chain slap, they can't loosen the chain that much. But a broken guide (or weak tensioner) will not be able to hold the chain tight. Especially at lower RPM's.
"A couple hours later I hooked to my boat/trailer to relocate it in the yard & noticed that when I slightly increased the throttle against the load the knock sound (almost a preignition "type" rattle sound) was noticeable. (Also noticeable when throttling into the brakes)"
You were at low RPM's. If you go to neutral and rev the engine, it goes away! Right?! Have you had any codes related to VCT or Can Shaft Position Sensors? If so, these are not the cause, but they are 'seeing' the slap and will throw a code. Revving the engine increases the pressure on the tensioner and tightens the chains.
"The next day when I went to start my truck the engine went into a long start no-start-mode so I turned the key off, 15min later I tried again & the engine started."
This is your fuel pump driver module. If you drop the spare you will see that it is heavily corroded. Have you ever seen your temperature gauge spike to max hot, even though the engine was not over heating?
"90,xxx miles
I drove my truck around town & went home, about 5minutes later I started the truck & it started dieseling"
Timing issues. Computer is trying to adjust air fuel mixtures. You may have has a MAF sensor code. The computer is adjusting air and fuel. Your MAF and Fuel Pump Driver Module is working pretty hard now to compensate.
"A day or 2 later I let the truck warm up some (winter) & then headed towards town. Well something new happened, the engine shut off going down the road at about 50mph. A oil light had lit up (checked oil & was ok) & the engine would not restart."
This was my next problem too. Fuel pump driver module problem. Mine stalled 10+ times on the way home from work. Stopped, waited, and it restarted. I suspect that either the FPDM had cooled down, OR there were broken pieces of plastic chain guide in the pan that were getting sucked up by the oil pick up tube causing oil pressure problems. Shutting the engine off allowed the plastic to be release and fall to the bottom of the pan, restoring pressure/flow.
"(It still has that preignition "type" rattle sound if you listen for it)"
This is the broken chain guide.
My pre ignition, and dieseling sounds were alway more predominate just after an oil change and also when towing, especially when towing uphill.
Last edited by HappyCamper2015; 03-10-2015 at 01:25 PM.
03-10-2015, 03:49 PM
#190
Thanks HappyCamper2015 very much.
Only heard the chain slap/pop noise once for just a few seconds & on the passenger side (last Nov).
Surprisingly no codes yet.
Haven't seen engine temp gauge maxing.
(I watch my temperatures off my programer screen also-just installed it last summer)
(Just noting that I have had the same issues with the stock ford program as I had uninstalled the programmer to test & eliminate the possibility)
Free revving the engine I dont recall any rattle noise as for the reason of doing it under a load.
Strange is I changed the oil the other day after the last incident & I filtered the oil trough a shop paper towel & metal screen & got nothing, thought for sure Id see something. LoL
I will check Fuel pump driver module.
Guess the only solution is just replacing the unit going off this post I just found.
https://www.f150forum.com/f4/fuel-pu...-yours-152908/
The symptoms Ive been seeing have pretty much been showing up basically in cold weather months. Just thought it was interesting.
.
Only heard the chain slap/pop noise once for just a few seconds & on the passenger side (last Nov).
Surprisingly no codes yet.
Haven't seen engine temp gauge maxing.
(I watch my temperatures off my programer screen also-just installed it last summer)
(Just noting that I have had the same issues with the stock ford program as I had uninstalled the programmer to test & eliminate the possibility)
Free revving the engine I dont recall any rattle noise as for the reason of doing it under a load.
Strange is I changed the oil the other day after the last incident & I filtered the oil trough a shop paper towel & metal screen & got nothing, thought for sure Id see something. LoL
I will check Fuel pump driver module.
Guess the only solution is just replacing the unit going off this post I just found.
https://www.f150forum.com/f4/fuel-pu...-yours-152908/
The symptoms Ive been seeing have pretty much been showing up basically in cold weather months. Just thought it was interesting.
.
