Timmernator

Hello...Just joined the site...Ive learned many things your site..thanks..I have a '93 f150 4.9 straight 6cyl F.I.

Was selling truck and hadnt started it in around a year..ran fine when last started...but wouldnt start now without spraying gas into the throttlebody...found out it was the front fuel pump..fixed it and started right up...went out 2 days later..wouldnt start again!

called back mobile mechanics and they found a ground wire in-between the 2 tanks that had been rubbing the frame...said it could have been the cause of the 1st pump to go out...well before they came out, the guy who was going to buy it and I were trying to get it started...I sprayed a little bit of starting fluid...it would run, but like crap..nothing like it sounded when we drove it after the fuel pump fix...it just didnt sound right from the 1st turn of the key...Ive started this truck every day for over 7 years..you just know something sounded wrong...I thought the starter was acting up again..these 300's eat starters..kept trying to start it with gas after initial spray of the "death fluid"...still just a hit here and there..motor jumping around all over the place...I quit and went inside...idiot buyer must have sprayed half the can while I was inside for a minute..I came out the front door to smell ether from around the side of the house...I think he put the nail in the coffin...couldnt get it to hit a lick after that...

1st they said it was timing gears??? but we got fire to the plugs and the rotor turned...then maybe head gasket they said??? was going to pull head, upon tearing down, took off valve cover to find 4 bent pushrods out on the side of the rocker arms..They are on the right if looking from the drivers side..I guess intake side?..now there thinking timing gears again??? SO CONFUSED!!!!!

how can I easily check whats wrong?? rotor pointing to #1 cly...#1 piston at TDC... timing mark at 10*...if part of the timing gears was off, would all rockers rock?? or if cam was broke, wouldnt some just sit there?? could all the starting fluid cause such pressure that the valves stayed closed and bent the rods as the cam came around?? hope Im making some sense here?? Any help would be greatly appreciated...ps..sorry for the book thanks for sticking it out till the end.

Timmernator

continued from earlier post>>>

ok...went out again and found the correct timing mark...it was the "chiseled" looking mark...cleaned it all up and put a white mark with a grease pencil..easy to see now...went around numerous times...had the timing marks lined up, #1 piston @TDC and the freakin rotor was pointed towards the drivers side headlight/ac compressor area...went around many times again and in the other stroke it would be pointed at the middle of the firewall...180* of where it was landing @TDC and 10* timing...
so it seems the dist. is fine?? could it have broke a tooth? or does this sound more like the timing gears have jumped a tooth or broke a tooth?? Ive read it would be hard to jump as there is no chain...gear on gear...
I did this many times to have the rotor end up in the same 2 places every other time....any help would be greatly appreciated...thanks in advance!

Payne

Are you still having problems with this truck?

bobkyle2

the piston will come up tdc 2 times.... you should bring it up to tdc on compression stroke.... you could have some stuck valve that could have caused your push rods to bend

Timmernator

ok...we had the head checked..thats what the mechanic said...had one cracked valve guide?? head was slightly warped...had a bunch of stuck valves...they said they had to hit them with a hammer to get them to move?? resurfaced the head and took extra off the ends to get the head true...put it all back together...new pushrods & gaskets..the whole nine yards..all felpro..tourqued it all to specs...put the dist. in with the rotor pointing to the #1 cyl...#1 piston at TDC 100% for sure, as engine had not been moved from when having the head off..timing dots lined up before timing cover reinstalled..all was correct...we check double checked,triple checked...we even checked the compression right before firing it up after the headgasket and pushrod repair...all cyl had around 110 to 115 lbs of pressure...

went to fire it and it wouldnt start and still seemed out of time(a few small pops and backfires), even though we put the dist back to where it was supposed to go according to all manuals Ive read online and in books....so we took dist out and put it back a tooth off like it was in the beginning and it fired right up...we still dont understand why its pointing to the drivers side headlight and running??? the firing order/timing mark is correct.....

well it started fine after moving dist one tooth..timed it by ear...had a slight miss still...like a plug wire or bad spark plug, but it was running fairly good...ok...we turned it off and restarted it many times within an hour...each time it fired right up with a touch of the key...we got it figured out and fixed, FINALLY???

NOT QUITE?!?!?!?!?

well went out this morning and went to start it and drive around and it was like it had started all over again, back to the beginning...it sounded weird right away when it turned over the 1st time...like no compression??? wouldnt hit a lick..didnt even fire one time...but it ran great when we shut it off last night??...I was freakin sick!!!.I went right away to check compression, as this is what it sounded like when we 1st starting working on this piece of $&!#...#1=0, #2=0, #3=0, #4=0, #5=120 and #6 had 150lbs???? how could this be??? especially the 150 reading?? took off the valve cover again to find 2 brand new intake side pushrods on the side of the #2 & #3 rockers and a few more intake side pushrods that were bent but not out of the rockers YET!

Mechanic brought his Father...oldschool retired mechanic...he thinks it was the oil not pumping enough..no oil getting to the lifters or rockers...the oil pump may have dried up while sitting for the past 2 years??? (but the rockers had plenty of oil on them as well did the inside of the valve cover)...oil was getting up there...we pulled the oil sending unit and oil kindof glumped out of the hole as it turned over....it wasnt a stream..maybe a handfull of oil each time motor came around....that tells me the pump was working, correct?

and even if it was oil related, wouldnt the exhaust valves also be sticking???...it seemed exactly the same as before...all intake valves sticking and bending puchrods, as they were loose and moving around freely without valve spring pressure....but the old guy said he watched the machine shop tech take out the valves and unstuck them with a hammer...I didnt think you could take a head apart and put it back together without marking each valve to make sure it went back into the exact position..otherwise it wouldnt seat right, as the valves do not rotate in the head at all...(what the ASE cerified mech told me today on the phone)there were no marks on the valves or in the comb. chambers...he swore up and down he was there when machineshop tore it completely down and fixed the valve guide in #3 cyl and shaved the head??? head to me looked the same as when they took it...still gunked up with deposits from a 120,000+ mile motor...you would think they would have cleaned it up before putting it back together, right?? but it had been resurfaced...

Now I have one guy telling me its bad gas causing it(gas in tank 2 years old)Varnish build-up on the valves and guides or maybe the lifters gummed up?? Old father time mech says its maybe the oil pump or all(I mean all) lifters not pumping up(even though the problem seems to be with just the intake side valves and pushrods? or the oil pump is not pumping enough due to gaskets dried up from sitting 2 years) if that was the case, the damage should be all the way across the cyls, not just mainly on the intake valves...the ASE certified mech telling me it was probably from the starting fluid in the beginning drying the intake guides off and doing no-lube damage....(which makes the most sense) and the head was not taken apart and inspected/repaired like the old guy said...just resurfaced....so after it cooled down from running it and starting it last night for close to an hour, it simply cooled down and contracted around the valvestem/guides. making them stick at intial turnover this morning

Is any of this making any sense to anyone??? Please help!!!I know we have to pull the head again and have it checked by another machine shop...that will let me know if the old guy is telling the truth?? But what else could have caused this??? Thanks in advance again for helping and reading all the way thru this long detailed post.

90F150XLTBilly

mine has a 351 w. sat for a year and then some. guy tried to run it with bad gas and no go. he sprayed about half a can of ether in it and hit the key. massive backfire. air box exploded. 5 bent rods. all intake. rebuilt heads and replaced rods. drained tanks put in new gas. ran fine. so i could see the bad gas and the ether killing your truck. but i have no idea why it would happen twice. sounds like you have a real f'in genius doin your headwork. i did mine myself when it happened to me and everything has been fine, other thal fuel pump issues. id have someone else look at it next time.