want to purchase a 4x4
12-22-2010, 12:03 PM
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want to purchase a 4x4
hi Guys,
I'm new to this forum but not new to Ford products. I'm in the marked for a 97-2001 F150, looking for an extended or crew cab 4x4. Like most people I'm on a budget and in the Atlanta area I've been able to see a few trucks but haven't seen the right truck. I have a few months before I need to purchase one so I can take my time.
My question is about the 4x4 systems. Of the 3 trucks I've seen so far, only one would actually engage the 4x4 system. All 3 used the switch on the dash to engage. One did nothing, one tried to engage but it sounded like metal on metal and gave up after a few seconds and the 3rd worked normally but seemed to bind the steering more than I would have expected. My expectation is based on owning a 99 Toyota 4runner 4x4.
Is there a simple way to diagnose these issues and know whether I'm looking at a switch, an actuator or something more serious?
The other question is about the pricing of these trucks. A clean truck with 130 to 150K miles if you can find it in the Atlanta market can still go for over $7K with seems crazy to me when KBB puts the truck at around $5K. Am I crazy to think I can find one that's priced in line with KBB?
Last question, other than the normal stuff to check when inspecting a used vehicle, is there anything specific to these trucks I should be looking at?
thanks in advance!
Jeff
I'm new to this forum but not new to Ford products. I'm in the marked for a 97-2001 F150, looking for an extended or crew cab 4x4. Like most people I'm on a budget and in the Atlanta area I've been able to see a few trucks but haven't seen the right truck. I have a few months before I need to purchase one so I can take my time.
My question is about the 4x4 systems. Of the 3 trucks I've seen so far, only one would actually engage the 4x4 system. All 3 used the switch on the dash to engage. One did nothing, one tried to engage but it sounded like metal on metal and gave up after a few seconds and the 3rd worked normally but seemed to bind the steering more than I would have expected. My expectation is based on owning a 99 Toyota 4runner 4x4.
Is there a simple way to diagnose these issues and know whether I'm looking at a switch, an actuator or something more serious?
The other question is about the pricing of these trucks. A clean truck with 130 to 150K miles if you can find it in the Atlanta market can still go for over $7K with seems crazy to me when KBB puts the truck at around $5K. Am I crazy to think I can find one that's priced in line with KBB?
Last question, other than the normal stuff to check when inspecting a used vehicle, is there anything specific to these trucks I should be looking at?
thanks in advance!
Jeff
12-22-2010, 02:00 PM
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The best advice i can give you is to take the truck to a mechanic and have him check it out before you buy it, if the 4x4 doesnt work it could be a numerous number of things, one thing i can tell you about these year ford models is have the salesman put the truck in nuetraul and switch it into 4x4 mode and you should hear a little dud/click it should sound clean and crisp and last about only 2 seconds at tops, i got lucky with my 4x4 cause the guy that had it before me put a whole new 4x4 system in it the bad thing is that my transmission broke and had to buy a new one but other then that my truck is a 2000 f150 ext. cab it has 214,XXX miles and still runs strong
12-22-2010, 02:06 PM
#3
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As far as pricing goes, that is a very hard question to answer, depending on current market, location, condition, etc. Especially when buying from a private seller on a vehicle 7-13 years old, it usually comes down to the negotiation between you and the seller. Don't be afraid to haggle or walk away, especially if you have time to wait. I just picked up my 03 this past November, I had been looking since early August and stalking the truck I did buy on craigslist since it first went up in September. My patience paid off and I ended up getting a great deal.
The amount of steering bind depends on the surface the truck is on and the condition of the tires. Sometimes my steering doesn't get heavier at all, to the point I'm not sure its engaged. Other times, there is a very perceptible increase in steering effort.
The test procedure for rough 4x4 diagnosis this:
1) Jack up front of truck, just enough for the front wheels to clear the ground, place it on stands, and start the Engine.
2) Engage both 4HI and 4Low per the owners manual and check for proper operation of the dash lights. Failure to light or flashing lights indicate either selector switch or GEM failure.
3) Open hood and locate the two 4x4 vacuum solenoids on the passanger side firewall behind the battery. Place your fingers on them and listen/feel for a click while an assistant shifts the truck between 2hi and 4hi. If they don't click, the solenoids are most likely busted.
4) Check transfer case operation by crawling under the truck and trying to rotate the front drive shaft after shifting into 4hi. The shaft should not turn in 4hi or 4low. A turning shaft indicates a transfer case or transfer case shift motor problem.
5) If you pass step 4 (drive shaft cannot be turned in 4hi or 4low), try to turn the driver's side front wheel. The wheel should turn and the passenger side wheel should turn in the opposite direction. If the other wheel doesn't turn, the front diff isn't engaged. This is most likely the vacuum shift canister or vacuum leak. If it is very hard to turn or is locked, there may be other mechanical problems.
Your results will dictate the expense and complexity of repair.
Search this forum for posts by user "TheJMC." He has experience on this and may have already answered your question.
The amount of steering bind depends on the surface the truck is on and the condition of the tires. Sometimes my steering doesn't get heavier at all, to the point I'm not sure its engaged. Other times, there is a very perceptible increase in steering effort.
The test procedure for rough 4x4 diagnosis this:
1) Jack up front of truck, just enough for the front wheels to clear the ground, place it on stands, and start the Engine.
2) Engage both 4HI and 4Low per the owners manual and check for proper operation of the dash lights. Failure to light or flashing lights indicate either selector switch or GEM failure.
3) Open hood and locate the two 4x4 vacuum solenoids on the passanger side firewall behind the battery. Place your fingers on them and listen/feel for a click while an assistant shifts the truck between 2hi and 4hi. If they don't click, the solenoids are most likely busted.
4) Check transfer case operation by crawling under the truck and trying to rotate the front drive shaft after shifting into 4hi. The shaft should not turn in 4hi or 4low. A turning shaft indicates a transfer case or transfer case shift motor problem.
5) If you pass step 4 (drive shaft cannot be turned in 4hi or 4low), try to turn the driver's side front wheel. The wheel should turn and the passenger side wheel should turn in the opposite direction. If the other wheel doesn't turn, the front diff isn't engaged. This is most likely the vacuum shift canister or vacuum leak. If it is very hard to turn or is locked, there may be other mechanical problems.
Your results will dictate the expense and complexity of repair.
Search this forum for posts by user "TheJMC." He has experience on this and may have already answered your question.
12-22-2010, 09:03 PM
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Wow, thanks guys I'm impressed with the quickness of the response and the depth of knowledge!
I'm going to look at a 98 F250 with 132K tomorrow, I hope this one goes better. I know I'll be better prepared.
Jeff
I'm going to look at a 98 F250 with 132K tomorrow, I hope this one goes better. I know I'll be better prepared.
Jeff
12-23-2010, 09:27 AM
#5
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The procedure I described for 4x4 testing is only for 97-03 F150s with the always locked hubs and disconnect at the differential. F250s and other generation trucks are slightly different with either manual or vacuum hubs.
Still go through the 5 steps, but if you have trouble at step 5, check for wheel movement relative to steering u-joint (the one you can see at the knuckle) or half shaft movement. If the hubs don't lock in when you engage 4x4 and try to lock in the hubs, the wheel will move relative to the joint/shaft.
Still go through the 5 steps, but if you have trouble at step 5, check for wheel movement relative to steering u-joint (the one you can see at the knuckle) or half shaft movement. If the hubs don't lock in when you engage 4x4 and try to lock in the hubs, the wheel will move relative to the joint/shaft.
12-27-2010, 11:50 AM
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I went to look at this F250 and once again, the 4x4 would not engage. No clicking of the solenoids... nothing from the switch. At first the 4x4 light on the dash didn't come on but after playing with the switch for a few minutes the light did come on and never turned off again no matter what position the switch was in. based on BigIrish's write up, I'd say it was the switch or GEM although to be honest I don't know what a GEM is 
I guess I need to be patient and I'll find the right truck. The guy that owns the dealership says he'll have his mechanic check it out this week... I'm not holding my breath
One interesting thing about this one, it was part of a fleet that burned propane. It had a toolbox in the back and under the toolbox, in the bed was a bolted in fuel tank for propane. The bad news is that it made the usable space in the bed smaller, I don't have any experience with propane except when I was in Australia in a rental car... my understanding is that it burns cleaner. What I don't know is how it affects the longevity of the motor.
Does anyone have an opinion about the propane and its advantages / disadvantages? Obviously, I don't know what percentage of the 132K this truck ran one fuel or the other but I have to imagine if someone went to the expense of installing the system, that they must have used it.
I liked the truck in general, If this guy does come back to me with a working 4x4 system, I'd like to know enough to make an educated decision.
thanks!
Jeff
I guess I need to be patient and I'll find the right truck. The guy that owns the dealership says he'll have his mechanic check it out this week... I'm not holding my breath
One interesting thing about this one, it was part of a fleet that burned propane. It had a toolbox in the back and under the toolbox, in the bed was a bolted in fuel tank for propane. The bad news is that it made the usable space in the bed smaller, I don't have any experience with propane except when I was in Australia in a rental car... my understanding is that it burns cleaner. What I don't know is how it affects the longevity of the motor.
Does anyone have an opinion about the propane and its advantages / disadvantages? Obviously, I don't know what percentage of the 132K this truck ran one fuel or the other but I have to imagine if someone went to the expense of installing the system, that they must have used it.
I liked the truck in general, If this guy does come back to me with a working 4x4 system, I'd like to know enough to make an educated decision.
thanks!
Jeff
12-28-2010, 01:16 PM
#7
Aerospace Engineer
Light coming on and then not going off can also be a slow vacuum motor or t-case motor issue.
GEM = general electronics module. Its the cryptic name Ford gives to the little black box under the dash that handles the electronic side of the 4x4 system.
In modern vehicles (those made to run unleaded gas), propane doesn't usually affect engine durability or longevity. There are some tuning changes to be made to compensate for the different characteristics of propane as a fuel.
The down side is usually decreased range. LPG used in those tanks doesn't have as much energy per unit volume as gasoline, so its hard to pack in enough to keep the same range.
GEM = general electronics module. Its the cryptic name Ford gives to the little black box under the dash that handles the electronic side of the 4x4 system.
In modern vehicles (those made to run unleaded gas), propane doesn't usually affect engine durability or longevity. There are some tuning changes to be made to compensate for the different characteristics of propane as a fuel.
The down side is usually decreased range. LPG used in those tanks doesn't have as much energy per unit volume as gasoline, so its hard to pack in enough to keep the same range.