techrep

iTrader: (1)

but remember everytime you boost your battery you shorten the life on it... huh ??

homer

Yes Techrep, I should have known you were going to ask it . Maybe I'm misreading your post as I read similar to that other fellows rim question but I always love how you're so nice about how you ask or advise :P. Having said that, it's a fair question (would have been nicer to say, why does it shorten the life on a battery?), you do contribute a lot to the forum and I know we all appreciate it, it's just hard to read you sometimes haha. I'll answer the question at hand though and try to provide some backup to it.


My statement on "boosting" shortening the battery life was a quick statement, it's more the discharge/recharge, how you perform the recharge, how long the battery has been discharged, has the battery frozen, etc that impacts the life of the battery. You can boost it all you want, although that's hard on the alternator anyways (especially the boosting vehicle if it's running).

I don't have too much time right now to get into the crazy chemistry of a battery (and I did write the earlier response very late last night and quickly) but it comes down to sulfation, chemicals evaporating, depending on the charge rate it can affect the plates. The main key thing here is, the discharge is the bad part for the battery. How you recharge it can impact it in several ways. It's simply just best to avoid having the battery discharge if at all possible, so if you have a parasitic drain I would try to find it sooner rather than later. Additionally, part of the reason for smart alternators on some of the vehicles monitor the temperature of the battery (approximately) and try to control the output load on the alternator to charge the battery in a safer manner. The Ford Focus is an example, and I've seen the smart charging circuit fail to illuminate the alternator light when one has failed (even with the voltage being at 12v instead of 13.5-14.5). I suppose a nice issue with electronics on the newer cars, although being a programmer myself I know bugs do happen. The smart charger gets more complicated though on the newer Fords as it tries to prevent overcharging and such and is really designed for a different battery(http://www.valeoservice.com/data/mas...73.pdf?rnd=113)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_battery - Wikipedia isn't always 100% accurate (it's on the internet, it must be right? hehe)
"When installing a new battery or recharging a battery that has been accidentally discharged completely, one of several different methods can be used to charge it. The most gentle of these is called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle_charging. Other methods include slow-charging and quick-charging, the latter being the harshest."

Leaving the battery discharged: "Sulfation occurs when a battery is not fully charged. The longer it remains in a discharged state the harder it is to overcome sulfation. This may be overcome with slow, low-current (trickle) charging. Sulfation is the formation of large, non-conductive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_sulfate crystals on the plates; lead sulfate formation is part of each cycle, but in the discharged condition the crystals become large and block passage of current through the electrolyte.[15]"

http://rac.com.au/motoring/batteries...7618755901This site doesn't unfortunately elaborate why but it does state it (although kid



This one is detailed on the discharge, recharge process however I will admit part of it is stating about a "charge wizard" (their product) so it'll definitely be partially a sales pitch. They're not inaccurate in what they're stating though:
http://www.progressivedyn.com/battery_manage_101.html




http://www.solar-facts.com/batteries...ry-failure.php
"As seen above, allowing a battery to stay in a state of not being fully (or nearly fully) charged will lead to sulphation problems. What's more, fully discharging (or nearly fully discharging) can cause such changes to the battery's chemistry that it will not readily recharge."



You've likely heard that gasses are emitted during charging and if you spark/arc while disconnecting or reconnecting you can cause an explosion. That evaporation is the hydrogen gases.... as you evaporate your electrolyte, your plates don't reach anymore (after a period of time). You've now evaporated water or electrolyte. Eventually that water (distilled) needs to be refilled but you may have lost electrolyte in the process as well. Many people refill the maintainable batteries with distilled water however you're diluting it now.

http://www.progressivedyn.com/battery_basics.html

We could really go into a lot of detail on this but a slow charge isn't necessarily good either at times (yes, I know that contradicts what I wrote earlier). Basically, simply put, the discharge/recharge process simply shortens the life of a car battery. In a boost or jump start situation, it's hard on your battery (quick charge - high current output) but also your alternator (you're burning up your brushes running higher current through them - standard design) and again you have the risk of freezing your battery as well (and boosting a frozen battery can cause it to explode - doesn't happen often but it's not hard here in Canada at -30C weather). Typical alternators today on some vehicles with all of the electronics (heat, headlights, etc) don't output the same as the old ones either so idling may not necessarily charge your battery, or definitely not completely. The longer the battery sits, you have a risk of sulfication or again, freezing... A laptop battery.... totally different chemistry! Those are recommended to be cycled once a month (different chemicals).


I'm going 7 years on my current battery and I can still start my truck up at -30C without it plugged in with no issues (not that I want to!!!!! haha).

I hope this answers your question? I've probably put more detail than I needed but that's the general idea. To re-iterate, it's simply best not to let your battery discharge at all if avoidable. Disconnect the battery is storing/parking the vehicle, put a trickle charge on it, or do whatever you have to do. I drive short distances to work so I throw mine on the charger from time to time (also take it for a highway drive to prevent sludge in my oil but that's a different topic). I also need to clarify that what I'm stating is based on lead-acid batteries (and does not apply to all batteries).

techrep

iTrader: (1)

LOL... thought Boosting meant Jump Starting... just was wondering how in the hell that would shorten a battery life...

homer

No worries hahaha. Overall, it's really a good question though as many people don't know about the discharge situation hurting their battery. I had a remote starter in my Honda Civic years ago with a manual transmission... I'd constantly forget the headlights on because the vehicle has to stay running while you get out. I never had the habit of looking back so I'd drain the frickan battery numerous times. Anyways, I killed it in short order. The newer compustars have a parking light input that can page you if you leave your lights on though which is nice. I just switched to an F150 with an automatic and haven't had the issue since hahaha


For the OP though, I hope you're able to trace down the source of what's happening.

05Raptor

Thanks for such an awesome reply.

I do have an aftermarket remote start system by autopage.
I also have amps, speakers, subs, and nav; all aftermarket.

I am at school at Purdue right now and don't have my truck. But I am getting home this Saturday, and I have ordered an alternator so I can replace that when I get home. Do y'all think I'll need a new battery as well?

Also, if I don't sell my truck over Christmas break, I will just disconnect the battery, even though it's a pain in the *** to reset all of my sound settings.

Thank you all for the replies.

homer

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Your subs and amp shouldnt draw anything unpowered but that Autopage will as i was mentioning. You could always pull the fuses om the remote start (usually two under the dash) and see if that helps. You might get away with that you just have to put the fuses back in when you want remote start or that remote to work. You'll have some draw from the radio retaining memory and PCM but it shouldn't draw too much. &lt;br /&gt;<br />
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I would charge up your current battery. It might still be fine. If you can, put it on a charger rather than boost it.

TheVx

My buddy had the same problem on his 2004 f150. His battery was coming up as dead, but he has just bought one the week before. So we replaced the alternater and the problem was fixed. Good Luck

05Raptor

So today I replaced the alternator and the battery. I will keep y'all updated, but so far it has been working fine.

Thanks for all the help!

Feathermerchant

There is a way to conduct an ignition off draw (IOD). First you close all the doors and wait for all the lights to go off. Then you use a voltmeter with a current (Amp) mode. Connect one lead to the negative terminal, and the other to the battery post. Loosen the terminal and remove it without disconnecting the meter. Now all the current from the battery to the truck must go through the meter. A typical reading is no more than 0.050A (50mA). If it is more, just start pulling fuses and watch the meter. I would start with your aftermarket stuff. Amps Alarm, Remote starter, etc.