Truck key
#1
Moderator (Ret.)
Thread Starter
Truck key
Some of you may be aware of my quest to resolve the infamous cluster swap (changing the cluster in your truck with that of another). One of the stories I kept coming accross is that the new cluster has to be programmed to accept your key; this leads one to think that Ford installed the security into the cluster and not the ECM. Some say this is bunk; they have swapped with no programming done at all to the new cluster, and the truck started just fine.
Another person posted that they went to Wally Mart and had a key made from a blank, and the truck started.
So my question is simple; is there a chip inside the black part of the key? If so, then I will investigate and find out once and for all if it's the ECM that reads and accepts the code, or if it's the cluster that performs this.
Either way, some of these responses in various posts are wrong; if there is a chip in the key, then there's no way a "blank" copy would start our trucks. If there is a chip in the key, and the key code is read by the cluster and not the ECM, then those that stated they swapped clusters with no flashing, and the truck started, are wrong.
Please, I'm not accusing anyone of story telling, nor out for a witch hunt; just trying to solve the mystery of swapping clusters without the need to flash the key security code information. In other words, did you indeed swap clusters without flashing, and the truck started?
Can anyone verify (not by hearsay please) that the key contains a chip within the black covering?
Another person posted that they went to Wally Mart and had a key made from a blank, and the truck started.
So my question is simple; is there a chip inside the black part of the key? If so, then I will investigate and find out once and for all if it's the ECM that reads and accepts the code, or if it's the cluster that performs this.
Either way, some of these responses in various posts are wrong; if there is a chip in the key, then there's no way a "blank" copy would start our trucks. If there is a chip in the key, and the key code is read by the cluster and not the ECM, then those that stated they swapped clusters with no flashing, and the truck started, are wrong.
Please, I'm not accusing anyone of story telling, nor out for a witch hunt; just trying to solve the mystery of swapping clusters without the need to flash the key security code information. In other words, did you indeed swap clusters without flashing, and the truck started?
Can anyone verify (not by hearsay please) that the key contains a chip within the black covering?
Last edited by Mod (Ret.); 01-22-2009 at 07:39 AM.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: central alabama
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is something in the key that is "programmed" or flashed. I bought 2 extra key blanks off of ebay for my '08 f150. I took them by a lock place and had them cut to fit my truck. The manual says to go thru these steps to program it ...stick in programed key, then next program key, then blank and it is flashed. I did all this and they worked great. I heard somewhere that if you try to start the truck without a programmed key, that the truck would lock out the ignition?
#3
I can't say to any specifics but... Some vehicle that have a passive anti theft key device will start with a standard cut key but will only run for a short period. It is also very likley that the guys at Ford have changed the way this works from year to year. It is most likely from my past expierence that any cluster will work in any truck from the same year and options. (std. trans, consol shifter, etc..) How ever in all cases you would have to get the dealer to reprogram the ECM and cluster to properly reconize each other. Each module will have it's own id number that the other modules will reconize and that Ford will have on file for any dealer update programs that may be issued. As well with the cluster the mileage will read different until this programing is done.
In any case it is very likely that nobody is wrong in what they stated. I think you need to be clear on what model and year of cluster you are using and truck you have and then ask for specific information pertaining to that vehicle.
In any case it is very likely that nobody is wrong in what they stated. I think you need to be clear on what model and year of cluster you are using and truck you have and then ask for specific information pertaining to that vehicle.
#4
Moderator (Ret.)
Thread Starter
In my continuing search to resolve this issue, I have found the following:
Our 2004 to 2008 trucks use the PATS II (passive anti-theft system). The ignition key contains a transponder, which sends a specific frequency to the transceiver, which is located around the ignition key cylinder housing (behind the column shroud). The transeiver talks to the PCM (powertrain control module). Basically, if the wrong key is used, the PCM shuts down the injectors and other engine systems. So the engine may or may not start, but if it did, it would will die within minutes, set a code, and not start again without the correct key (had to wait about 10 minutes from another article I read).
Here is the part I'm still researching: the PATS II module is either part of the PCM module (since around 1999 to present), or it is a seperate module (pre 1999). The PCM is "the box" which is all part of the EEC V sytem (engine management system fifth generation). EEC V desribes the proccessor and OBD II software within the PCM, along with all of the engine sensors that constantly monitor the engine operation. One person assures me the PATS II circuitry is indeed in the PCM module.
In either case, I found that neither of these modules are located in the instrament cluster. The PCM is on the firewall within the engine compartment, on the passenger side. There are 3 wire harness plugs that connect to it. The older Fords that had a PATS I module, had these mounted usually around the drivers side cab area, behind the cluster, from what I could find.
My conclusion so far; I'd think the truck would start if a different cluster was installed, as it would have nothing directly to do with the PATS system.
Still digging though.
Our 2004 to 2008 trucks use the PATS II (passive anti-theft system). The ignition key contains a transponder, which sends a specific frequency to the transceiver, which is located around the ignition key cylinder housing (behind the column shroud). The transeiver talks to the PCM (powertrain control module). Basically, if the wrong key is used, the PCM shuts down the injectors and other engine systems. So the engine may or may not start, but if it did, it would will die within minutes, set a code, and not start again without the correct key (had to wait about 10 minutes from another article I read).
Here is the part I'm still researching: the PATS II module is either part of the PCM module (since around 1999 to present), or it is a seperate module (pre 1999). The PCM is "the box" which is all part of the EEC V sytem (engine management system fifth generation). EEC V desribes the proccessor and OBD II software within the PCM, along with all of the engine sensors that constantly monitor the engine operation. One person assures me the PATS II circuitry is indeed in the PCM module.
In either case, I found that neither of these modules are located in the instrament cluster. The PCM is on the firewall within the engine compartment, on the passenger side. There are 3 wire harness plugs that connect to it. The older Fords that had a PATS I module, had these mounted usually around the drivers side cab area, behind the cluster, from what I could find.
My conclusion so far; I'd think the truck would start if a different cluster was installed, as it would have nothing directly to do with the PATS system.
Still digging though.
Last edited by Mod (Ret.); 01-22-2009 at 04:21 PM.
#5
Administrator
This could be the case with my Wally-world key. I only started the truck with it for a few seconds to make sure that the key turned in the ignition. I can not test this now since the magnetic box that I had holding the key under the truck went missing after hurricane evacuation road trips.
#6
Moderator (Ret.)
Thread Starter
This could be the case with my Wally-world key. I only started the truck with it for a few seconds to make sure that the key turned in the ignition. I can not test this now since the magnetic box that I had holding the key under the truck went missing after hurricane evacuation road trips.
It continues....
#7
Moderator (Ret.)
Thread Starter
Here is more that I've dug up reading stuff in my Google searches....
Ford will insist that they need to flash the cluster: reason is to adjust mileage, and most importantly, to include the VIN number within the cluster. This was for "legal" reasons. If a person was to replace his cluster for one that showed lower mileage in an attempt to defraud a future buyer, the cluster could be "read" to obtain the VIN stored within the cluster, and compared to the VIN stamped on the vehicle. Only Ford (supposedly) can do the VIN update flash. The old cluster must be provided, or some other verification of the old mileage was needed to perform this operation, such as a dealership verifying the original mileage. This is why most dealerships do not flash clusters brought in to them; they buy directly from Ford when a cluster needs to be replaced. They don't want to take a chance being tied to a fraudulant mileage situation. The places that do flash clusters brought into them have indicated they attach a label to the back of the cluster, or on the pillar. But that's all they can do; the mileage and not the VIN.
This is all from the searches I've performed; I cannot prove any of it (yet). I do plan to install a cluster I'm waiting on; I will post that result soon.
Ford will insist that they need to flash the cluster: reason is to adjust mileage, and most importantly, to include the VIN number within the cluster. This was for "legal" reasons. If a person was to replace his cluster for one that showed lower mileage in an attempt to defraud a future buyer, the cluster could be "read" to obtain the VIN stored within the cluster, and compared to the VIN stamped on the vehicle. Only Ford (supposedly) can do the VIN update flash. The old cluster must be provided, or some other verification of the old mileage was needed to perform this operation, such as a dealership verifying the original mileage. This is why most dealerships do not flash clusters brought in to them; they buy directly from Ford when a cluster needs to be replaced. They don't want to take a chance being tied to a fraudulant mileage situation. The places that do flash clusters brought into them have indicated they attach a label to the back of the cluster, or on the pillar. But that's all they can do; the mileage and not the VIN.
This is all from the searches I've performed; I cannot prove any of it (yet). I do plan to install a cluster I'm waiting on; I will post that result soon.
Last edited by Mod (Ret.); 01-22-2009 at 04:51 PM.
Trending Topics
#8
That may explain why your "blank key" started for sure. Another reason would be your having the original in a box under the truck. According to some of the sites I've read, folks that buy the remote start systems get around the PATS security by taping a key inside the plastic steering column. This way the key is "transmitting" to the PATS, allowing the remote start to work. In your case, the original key was perhaps transmitting its signal and getting picked up by the transceiver located around the ignition cylinder (its basically wire that acts like an antenna). I don't know the range of the transcoder within the black part of the key though.
It continues....
It continues....
Last edited by billw; 01-22-2009 at 06:38 PM.
#9
Administrator
Just to clarify. The original key was not in that box. I bought the box to put the blank into in case I lost my keys. They were however, probably in my pocket when I tried the blank in the ignition.
#10
Senior Member
This is what I did:
I went to walmart and got a normal key cut and put it in a key box on the outside of my truck
I then went to the dealer and talked to him and he gave me two more transponder keys for my truck for free. I took one and put it in a key box and hid it inside my truck.
Now if someone finds my outside key they will not be able to take my truck but If I loose my keys I still can drive my truck.
When I was talking to my dealer he told me you can have up to 4 keys programed to a truck This is also true for the door remote door locks.
I went to walmart and got a normal key cut and put it in a key box on the outside of my truck
I then went to the dealer and talked to him and he gave me two more transponder keys for my truck for free. I took one and put it in a key box and hid it inside my truck.
Now if someone finds my outside key they will not be able to take my truck but If I loose my keys I still can drive my truck.
When I was talking to my dealer he told me you can have up to 4 keys programed to a truck This is also true for the door remote door locks.