timing the 5.4 triton with cam phasers
06-07-2016, 09:22 PM
#21
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boy am I happy, I fired up the truck today and it runs like a champ, so much smoother than before. Just want to thank you guys again.
Btw here are a few things I noticed that may help the next guy:
- You absolutely can line up the cam sprockets on either the R or the L with the two chain black marks, as long as the crank sprocket dot is on the one black marked chain. Again both cams can't be on the same letter.
- don't be too worried if you accidentally rotate the cam or the crank with the chain disconnected (or upon removing the chain, the valve springs may rotate the cam over. the valves don't hit within 90deg of rotation either direction. Just get them back lined up where they go.
-If you make it a two man job you don't need to remove any followers just have one guy hold the cam position angle steady while you torque on the phaser bolt to remove it. You can use either a vise grip or make a special bolt like I did that fits into the socket at the back of the cam. just grind down a 1/2 bolt to a D shape until it fits and use a socket and ratchet to rotate/hold the cam.
-I highly recommend lifting the cab if you have a lift, it only took me 1.5 to remove the cab and it opens up the workspace so well and was convenient for replacing all the 4wd vacuum tubing.
- to get all the broken plastic guide pieces out of the oil pan , you have to drop the pan. On a 4wd this was tricky but I found it super easy to just lift the front of the motor with a cherry picker 2" and it comes right out. Take out the 3 motor mount bolts, Loosen the tranny x member bolts, remove cross member under oil pan, and loosen sway bar frame mounts. Don't forget to pick all the broken plastic shards out of the pickup tube....
-The "priming the oil pump with starter" idea doesn't work. I took all the plugs out so the motor would turn over even faster but I could never build pressure using the starter, I know this because I removed the oil filter and it never flowed out the adapter. The it's like 20rpm max... Not enough to even to form a suction in the pickup tube. The beauty is new tensioners have enough spring tension to keep them (new unstretched chains) from jumping time. If I would have just remembered back to when I built my 32v cobra motor 10 ago I would have known it doesn't jump time on first start without a oil prime. I hope this gives someone in the future reassurance of the "first crank" after this job.
Cheers
Robert
Btw here are a few things I noticed that may help the next guy:
- You absolutely can line up the cam sprockets on either the R or the L with the two chain black marks, as long as the crank sprocket dot is on the one black marked chain. Again both cams can't be on the same letter.
- don't be too worried if you accidentally rotate the cam or the crank with the chain disconnected (or upon removing the chain, the valve springs may rotate the cam over. the valves don't hit within 90deg of rotation either direction. Just get them back lined up where they go.
-If you make it a two man job you don't need to remove any followers just have one guy hold the cam position angle steady while you torque on the phaser bolt to remove it. You can use either a vise grip or make a special bolt like I did that fits into the socket at the back of the cam. just grind down a 1/2 bolt to a D shape until it fits and use a socket and ratchet to rotate/hold the cam.
-I highly recommend lifting the cab if you have a lift, it only took me 1.5 to remove the cab and it opens up the workspace so well and was convenient for replacing all the 4wd vacuum tubing.
- to get all the broken plastic guide pieces out of the oil pan , you have to drop the pan. On a 4wd this was tricky but I found it super easy to just lift the front of the motor with a cherry picker 2" and it comes right out. Take out the 3 motor mount bolts, Loosen the tranny x member bolts, remove cross member under oil pan, and loosen sway bar frame mounts. Don't forget to pick all the broken plastic shards out of the pickup tube....
-The "priming the oil pump with starter" idea doesn't work. I took all the plugs out so the motor would turn over even faster but I could never build pressure using the starter, I know this because I removed the oil filter and it never flowed out the adapter. The it's like 20rpm max... Not enough to even to form a suction in the pickup tube. The beauty is new tensioners have enough spring tension to keep them (new unstretched chains) from jumping time. If I would have just remembered back to when I built my 32v cobra motor 10 ago I would have known it doesn't jump time on first start without a oil prime. I hope this gives someone in the future reassurance of the "first crank" after this job.
Cheers
Robert
Last edited by rabney72; 06-07-2016 at 10:25 PM.
06-08-2016, 04:47 AM
#22
05 5.4l 3v s.crew lariat
rabney72 thanks for the oil pump test
I can appreciate your results with the oil filter off test (I was too chicken to try that ). . I did hand oil my cams when I reinstalled them and I carefully primed lash adjusters . Oil did get on exhaust manifold and smoked for 10 minutes or so until it burned off . Had oil dripping off my hands . Used plastic food bowls with lids for soaking lash adjusters .
I did prime my oil filter before installing it . Never in all my years did I do that for an oil change . The new oil pump made me try that . It was messy but a stucco pan under the engine cleaned that up . Used a blend oil as advised on my start up as it is cheaper too so I can change oil in the first couple of weeks as advised . Sand was blowing around during rebuild and like they said stuff will get in there when shes open .
And yes- clean that oil screen up good, the pickup had plastic stuck in it both times I took pan off . That design makes it hard to clean .
Most of all --big pieces of card board came in very handy for all sorts of reasons on this job .
I did prime my oil filter before installing it . Never in all my years did I do that for an oil change . The new oil pump made me try that . It was messy but a stucco pan under the engine cleaned that up . Used a blend oil as advised on my start up as it is cheaper too so I can change oil in the first couple of weeks as advised . Sand was blowing around during rebuild and like they said stuff will get in there when shes open .
And yes- clean that oil screen up good, the pickup had plastic stuck in it both times I took pan off . That design makes it hard to clean .
Most of all --big pieces of card board came in very handy for all sorts of reasons on this job .
06-09-2016, 02:09 AM
#23
LightningRod
@redfishtd Thanks a million for the kind words. It's heartening to know somebody out there, especially other than the member addressed, actually reads our stuff.Also thanks for the chuckle from the personal side of your phaser job.
...
My neighbors would come watch me tear this engine down as I'm under a stilt house and they would all say they would never try something like this . It was scary seeing the cams and rollers out of this thing , it scared them too. As it was coming together they gained some admiration and cheered me on , they saw me falter and cheered me on . They would say-- they knew I would get it .
I held the gas pedal to the floor to get the oil flowing with the new pump 3 or 4 times ,they heard me and shouted go for it as I was nervous .
I then tried a normal start and off she went , here they came with a beer to celebrate . They had heard the clatter of the old engine and she was purring like a kitten .
My neighbors would come watch me tear this engine down as I'm under a stilt house and they would all say they would never try something like this . It was scary seeing the cams and rollers out of this thing , it scared them too. As it was coming together they gained some admiration and cheered me on , they saw me falter and cheered me on . They would say-- they knew I would get it .
I held the gas pedal to the floor to get the oil flowing with the new pump 3 or 4 times ,they heard me and shouted go for it as I was nervous .
I then tried a normal start and off she went , here they came with a beer to celebrate . They had heard the clatter of the old engine and she was purring like a kitten .
We sound remarkably 'alike'. In my usual perfectionist ways, I also used several of the wife's covered food dishes to store many of my parts in (lifters, rollers, chains & phasers) soaking in oil to suppress the rusty finger prints and pre-oil them since I accumulated parts over several months (as SS checks permitted). I told the wife the parts had to be "marinated" just like her chicken! Likewise neighbors 'gawked' frequently while I worked and a couple of them insisted they would be right back over and help - just never got around to it. I paid my mechanically inclined yard boy to help with a couple of heavy things I couldn't do by myself.
And when I fired her up - the yard boy and those "too busy" neighbors were all present to cheer (or help cry in the beer - as the case might have been). But I fooled them! It started right up and sounded unbelievably quiet - except I had a distinct dead miss somewhere. The audience was totally in disbelief when I promptly pulled out my Torque Pro app. Without ever sutting the engine off, within about 30 seconds I saw the DTC was P0202, walked around and plugged the cyl #2 injector plug on that I had forgotten - and we all marveled at how smooth and quiet she idled.
It was only then that my apprehension (even fear) all melted away - and I accepted that beer. But it being about 8:30 at the end of a 12 hour day (Wife couldn't get me to stop with the end in sight), I couldn't have gone on to any other task. I just showered and crashed with the garage / shop a total disaster.
And would you believe - I don't have a Facebook or twitter account either. The Ford forums are also my only social network. But you may have noticed my profile notes that I haven't made any friends!. Hope there's not some underlying meaning there that I'm missing.
Yes life *IS* grand. And there is a hell of a lota' nice guys on here, all more than willing to help. To which I say Thank You.
11-12-2016, 04:07 PM
#25
LightningRod
My question is: "Why do you ask?" And what is meant by the crank gear being at 12 o'clock? The only logical reason (that I can think of) for asking that question seems to relate to verifying chain timing without removing the front cover. Running down some of your other posts, dating back to July this year, seems to support that theory - or raises serious suspicions.
The only markings that would be on the crank pulley (if any) would be ignition timing marks (which I doubt). If you remove the crank pulley bolt and washer - you should be able to see the position of the "keyway" - which would be the same as on the crank gear. With THAT reference, placing the keyway is at 11:00 o'clock would put the timing dot on the crank gear straight down (at 6:00 o'clock) on the crank gear. I do not know that that gets you anywhere though - because the timing marks do not align with gear markings but once every 122 crankshaft revolutions.
I notice in another thread back on 10/31/16:
But that thread is titled 'right bank not firing' ----- but you removed _one valve cover_ ----- and mentioned that No. 5 cam lobes aren't pointing right. Must have removed bank 2 VC. Why? You say you did the cam phaser timing ck.... Why did you not remove bank 1 VC if "right bank not firing"??
Very competent members were trying to help in that thread. Nevertheless, if you clear up a couple of these questions, I will try to offer some ideas.
The only markings that would be on the crank pulley (if any) would be ignition timing marks (which I doubt). If you remove the crank pulley bolt and washer - you should be able to see the position of the "keyway" - which would be the same as on the crank gear. With THAT reference, placing the keyway is at 11:00 o'clock would put the timing dot on the crank gear straight down (at 6:00 o'clock) on the crank gear. I do not know that that gets you anywhere though - because the timing marks do not align with gear markings but once every 122 crankshaft revolutions.
I notice in another thread back on 10/31/16:
Ok so I finally got this truck home. I started by removing bank one valve cover. I did the cam phaser timing ck. I put the timing mark at 1 o'clock. No 5 intake cam lobes were pointing to far down. I adjusted the cam.. now it actually runs with no codes but it's backfiring.. any thoughts?
But that thread is titled 'right bank not firing' ----- but you removed _one valve cover_ ----- and mentioned that No. 5 cam lobes aren't pointing right. Must have removed bank 2 VC. Why? You say you did the cam phaser timing ck.... Why did you not remove bank 1 VC if "right bank not firing"??
Very competent members were trying to help in that thread. Nevertheless, if you clear up a couple of these questions, I will try to offer some ideas.
