Shavings and Timing (lost on timing
02-09-2016, 03:53 PM
#11
They're not bad. I think they're around $130 each if I remember. Not sure though.
Okay... stop and breathe a minute. You really need to get the idea of where to position what OUT OF YOUR HEAD. It does not matter what position the crank is in. Slide the sprockets onto the crankshaft whatever position the crank is in, then put the chains on the timing crank sprocket so the single blue link aligns with the dimple on the crank sprocket. Then bring the chains up to the camshaft, and turn the camshaft with a pair of vise grips to line up the L or R with wherever the pair of blue chain links happen to be when you get the chains to the top. The fact that you have the ability to use vise grips to rotate the camshaft is why you do not need to worry about the position of the crankshaft. No matter what position the crank is in, as long as you align the single blue link at the bottom of the chain with the dimple on the timing crank sprocket, you can manually turn the camshafts to line up with the pair of blue links.
Is it clicking yet?
Okay... stop and breathe a minute. You really need to get the idea of where to position what OUT OF YOUR HEAD. It does not matter what position the crank is in. Slide the sprockets onto the crankshaft whatever position the crank is in, then put the chains on the timing crank sprocket so the single blue link aligns with the dimple on the crank sprocket. Then bring the chains up to the camshaft, and turn the camshaft with a pair of vise grips to line up the L or R with wherever the pair of blue chain links happen to be when you get the chains to the top. The fact that you have the ability to use vise grips to rotate the camshaft is why you do not need to worry about the position of the crankshaft. No matter what position the crank is in, as long as you align the single blue link at the bottom of the chain with the dimple on the timing crank sprocket, you can manually turn the camshafts to line up with the pair of blue links.
Is it clicking yet?
it does seem cut and dry, dont know what all the hoop rah is about, it almost seems idiot proof! thanks again for the help, very concise answers.
02-10-2016, 07:36 AM
#12
Waaaaait a second, let's not get carried away. For setting timing, no, the crank sprocket dot does not need to be at 6 o'clock.
Let's keep in mind that you do need to pay attention to your TDC (or close to it) cylinder in this procedure. If you manually rotate the camshaft, you need to ensure you aren't pushing a valve down into a cylinder near TDC.
OP, if it makes you feel any better, put the crank sprocket back on the cam shaft. Rotate the crank until the dot on the sprocket is at the 6'oclock position. Then, when you put everything back together, the phasher L and R will be around 2 and 10 o'clock. Then you put the single colored link on the crank sprocket dot, and the double colored links are split by the L and the R. This is the typical and accepted way of doing it. But no, the initial position is not completely necessary to set the timing.
IMO, why not put your crank dot at 6 o'clock, and know that cylinder 1 is at TDC for the remainder of the job?
Also, keep in mind that it's typically the crank sprocket dot at 6 o'clock, not the key way. This will put the key way at 2 o'clock if I recall.
Let's keep in mind that you do need to pay attention to your TDC (or close to it) cylinder in this procedure. If you manually rotate the camshaft, you need to ensure you aren't pushing a valve down into a cylinder near TDC.
OP, if it makes you feel any better, put the crank sprocket back on the cam shaft. Rotate the crank until the dot on the sprocket is at the 6'oclock position. Then, when you put everything back together, the phasher L and R will be around 2 and 10 o'clock. Then you put the single colored link on the crank sprocket dot, and the double colored links are split by the L and the R. This is the typical and accepted way of doing it. But no, the initial position is not completely necessary to set the timing.
IMO, why not put your crank dot at 6 o'clock, and know that cylinder 1 is at TDC for the remainder of the job?
Also, keep in mind that it's typically the crank sprocket dot at 6 o'clock, not the key way. This will put the key way at 2 o'clock if I recall.
The valves themselves are VERY hard. It's difficult to just bend / break one by hand.
02-10-2016, 08:05 AM
#13
Both correct and incorrect, sort of. True, it's not the greatest idea to rotate the crankshaft when the camshafts are not also rotating in time. But this is mostly true in terms of the starter motor, which has much more force than your own hands. You can rotate the camshafts 360 degrees by hand and the valves will likely be fine. (I did it several times when I was doing my own truck. Not a single problem.)
The valves themselves are VERY hard. It's difficult to just bend / break one by hand.
The valves themselves are VERY hard. It's difficult to just bend / break one by hand.
Not sure I understand the problem. Rotating the crank with any decent 1/2 inch ratchet isn't even hard. And why risk pushing a valve down into a cylinder, when you can index the crank and KNOW what you're doing.
Also, wtf are you talking about? The starter isn't engaged to the flex plate when it's not cranking.
Last edited by dyeguy1212; 02-10-2016 at 08:08 AM.
02-10-2016, 08:10 AM
#14
Not sure I understand the problem. Rotating the crank with any decent 1/2 inch ratchet isn't even hard. And why risk pushing a valve down into a cylinder, when you can index the crank and KNOW what you're doing.
Also, wtf are you talking about? The starter isn't engaged to the flex plate when it's not cranking.
Also, wtf are you talking about? The starter isn't engaged to the flex plate when it's not cranking.
02-10-2016, 08:21 AM
#15
Oh, I thought you meant in terms of difficulty of turning the crank. I don't disagree, but who the hell said they were going to turn the truck over with the starter? And don't tell me you can't damage a valve by pushing it down onto a cylinder, that's gotta be the stupidest advice I've read on this forum yet.
You can get upset if you want, but I still fail to see why you'd suggest going against what's in every repair manual, video, and thread about how to do this job.
Why tell a stranger to blindly rotate the cam shafts without knowing which cylinder is a TDC, just because YOU got lucky and every cylinder was low enough to not contact a piston? Tell them how to do it right, or don't chime in.
02-10-2016, 08:31 AM
#16
Wow. You're an ***. Moving on.
02-10-2016, 08:43 AM
#18
I actually got the advice I just gave from this forum. FYI, my engine was between TDC and 0100 when I did it, meaning there's a good chance the valves came in contact with piston 1. I came back to this forum and asked if that would be a problem and several engine builders said it would be HIGHLY unlikely that I broke or bent a valve by hand. And what do you know... my engine works fine.
Last edited by Martian; 02-10-2016 at 08:48 AM.
02-10-2016, 09:03 AM
#19
So what I gather, is that you DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION or THINK about what you were doing (ensure the valves weren't going to contact the piston), and got lucky.
So let's tell the next guy to do it wrong too?
So let's tell the next guy to do it wrong too?
02-10-2016, 09:10 AM
#20
You need to relax a little, friend. Nobody's saying it's a good idea to just grab a camshaft and spin the living hell out of it. That probably would do some damage. But there's nothing wrong with moving the camshaft a little to align it with the marked links on the timing chain, or even more than just "a little" if you have to. That's the whole point here.
