Rough idle/misfire
11-14-2014, 12:45 PM
#21
The O2's do set the stoic, U should see evidence on the pids. Graphing the pids can really help to tell if it has out of tolerance, especially if you have a truck to compare it to. Many times the electronics will code when they burn out and not when they are out of tolerances maybe due to a connection.
Can one "graph the parameter IDs" with the torque app? Not really sure what you mean here. I'd really like to do this to check my O2s because I'm having nearly the same issues as everyone else in this thread. What parameters should I be recording?
11-14-2014, 01:49 PM
#22
Checked the fuel trims again and there wasn't much difference. I did notice the short term was now balancing out the long term a little.
Then I disconnected the battery to reset all the learned parameters. The LTFT went to zero for a short time, confirming that the computer was in the initial learning mode. I noted that the STFT for B2 was showing much higher than B1, indicating that once the computer learned the engine specifics, I would see a disparity in fuel trim between the banks again. Sure enough:
At this point I think the only likely remaining cause is the cam phasers. I do have the phaser noise once the engine is warmed up. Hopefully I'll be doing a complete timing system replacement in the Spring.
Then I disconnected the battery to reset all the learned parameters. The LTFT went to zero for a short time, confirming that the computer was in the initial learning mode. I noted that the STFT for B2 was showing much higher than B1, indicating that once the computer learned the engine specifics, I would see a disparity in fuel trim between the banks again. Sure enough:
At this point I think the only likely remaining cause is the cam phasers. I do have the phaser noise once the engine is warmed up. Hopefully I'll be doing a complete timing system replacement in the Spring.
11-15-2014, 08:42 PM
#23
Replacing the fuel vapor hose from the solenoid on the driver side firewall to the intake plenum has made a significant improvement in idle quality for me. I can't even tell the engine is running at idle in gear now. NO vibration, and this engine has 93,600 miles. The intake plenum nipple broke off when I tried to take the old house off. It may have been cracked already. I got some plastic weld stuff from Napa that stated that it worked with plastic engine parts. It seems to have done a good job repairing the vacuum nipple. You might want to try replacing this hose. They typically deteriorate and leave black dust all over your hands when you handle them. Mine was doing this. Call Tasca with your VIN and they will get you the correct part. Mine cost $44 and change plus shipping.
11-22-2014, 02:51 PM
#24
Replacing the fuel vapor hose from the solenoid on the driver side firewall to the intake plenum has made a significant improvement in idle quality for me. I can't even tell the engine is running at idle in gear now. NO vibration, and this engine has 93,600 miles. The intake plenum nipple broke off when I tried to take the old house off. It may have been cracked already. I got some plastic weld stuff from Napa that stated that it worked with plastic engine parts. It seems to have done a good job repairing the vacuum nipple. You might want to try replacing this hose. They typically deteriorate and leave black dust all over your hands when you handle them. Mine was doing this. Call Tasca with your VIN and they will get you the correct part. Mine cost $44 and change plus shipping.
11-23-2014, 06:19 PM
#25
hello i just bought my 06 f 150 2 months ago and when i started getting cold out side i started getting a misfire code says p0308 i replaced plugs, coil packs over cyl 2 and 8 just cuz i had a dead miss in 2 but i found water in the coil pack on top of plug after it rained for cyl 2 and i just replaced the coil pack in 8 with no changes. was hoping it was just gonna be the cop ill be watching your posts and i like that screen what app are you using i am using torque free.
mine misfires when its cold out and idling. i don't notice it much when I'm driving down the freeway but i do when i am sitting at the light in drive or park
mine misfires when its cold out and idling. i don't notice it much when I'm driving down the freeway but i do when i am sitting at the light in drive or park
05-12-2016, 10:45 AM
#26
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5.4 3v misfire on 5 6 7 8 fixed
I have an 2004 Ford F 150 FX4 Fifth digit vin 5.
I have Used these forums lots of times and have had some good insight so I thought I would share my experience with these turd motors...
First I bought the truck a couple years ago. And when I test drove the vehicle the fellow that had it knew what he was doing.. We proceeded down the road and he keeps checking the fuel gauge and says we cant go far.. and insist we turn around not to long into the test drive.. I did drive it and get it up to speed and it seemed to drive ok... and I really like the way this truck looked.. and I had to have it.. SO
I buy the truck and not long after I hear a faint ticking noise that progressively gets worse week by week.. The gentleman knew this had some motor issues and knew that when it gets up to operating temperature the phasers kick in and make that god awful sound I'm sure anyone reading this knows what I am talking about..
One day though, it gets real bad... actually my tailpipe from the muffler had a leak in it so I take it to the exhaust shop and have them fix it no biggie.. well the next day when I pick it up, I notice a loss of power! all on the right hand side of the motor 5 6 7 8. I do a lot of research and eventually unplug the VCT on that side... BOOM...Problem solved, the truck runs a lot better... I called the exhaust place just to see if he noticed it and if maybe something could of occurred in the process... I have no idea but something was different...SO the truck is running.. Fast forward I say ok its the VCT so I order new vcts and new seals. Nothing different. SO i come to the conclusion it is the phaser just by my readings and the way the truck is acting. I order the new Phasers and in my research i see that i could A. Get the lockouts and the programmer for roughly $700 Or B. Buy New OEM Phasers that would make it long enough for me to get rid of this truck..
SO I take the truck apart and this is not an easy job.. very time consuming not hard just time consuming.. and BTW on the passenger side valve cover.. I have seen a lot of ppl say you have t disconnect the ac and its a pain which i agree that it is.. But If you have some one pull on the ac Line and pull it away from the valve cover, be careful not to go full retard on it but just enough to give you some space, and tip it up to clear the line so that the valve cover is almost up and down.. make sure all the wiring harnesses are out of the way and take all the valve cover bolts out and this should slide out really easy. You will have to finagle it a little but way better than taking it off by lifting it barely and sliding it toward the front.. and take out the VCT as well makes it easier to... oh yea and disconnect the wiring harness all the way down to ac another plug I'm not sure what it was and the oil sensor on oil pan.
Back to what i was telling you.. the things I notice upon pulling the timing chain cover and both valve covers... The driver side cam is all dicked up... the ears n the phaser are all bent and that's why the cam sensor couldn't pick up the cam because it was to far away from the senor magnet for it to tell where it was. and the driver side guide on the bottom was broke off.. the total length is a little over 12in or so.. and I had about 4 inches left intact.. so there was the problem... the tensioners leak off oil pressure allowing the chain to smack the guides until they break and this is what happened to mine because it had went from diesel to DIESEL.. you could hear the chain slap on startup and i seen the wear marks on the chain cover. I would like to mention that these gaskets on the tensioners have paper thin gaskets. I replaced the tensioners and the guides and marked the chains and where they were on the old Phasers and just replaced the 2 Phasers and 4 guides and 2 tensioners... put it all together and it well, not great but much much quieter and the only thing was a slight rough idle.. but hey I could live with that...
One month later, On our way to haul some mowers on a trailer and it starts to lose power.. I mean we cant even climb hills.. and we start to hear the valves chatter and spark knocking and (btw i replaced the plugs in the truck 2, but mine came out with ease i just put some carb cleaner in the holes cracked them about 1/2 turn and let them set over night and they all came right out none broke..) sounding really bad. on the way back we stop at an auto zone. and the only thing it says is INT cam shaft timing. misfire 5 6 7 8 and random misfires.. so we switch vcts, cam sensors, plugs, coils. everything we can from one side to another and cant find nothing.. Get it home and back into the garage it goes.. We get a computer that you can see the functions test and watch the cylinder's and see pending codes and other codes it was like a $6k computer.. we only knew how to do really little with it.. and how to read it.. but we could see that 5 6 7 8 was all misfiring . so we start thinking it is out of time. I'm thinking since i didn't find all the pieces to the guide a piece came back out of the oil pan and went between the phaser and the chain and threw it put of time because at one point on the way home we heard a screeching sound a pulled over and after it idled, the noise went away and didn't come back. I know, i know.. why didn't i pull the pan.. I recommend that if you have it that far apart to pull the pan... because that's where all the pieces will go..
So this time we take it apart and i pull the pan and empty the pickup tube that is prolly 80% clogged with plastic pieces from the broken guide. A tip just remove the tire and the bolt holding up the axle and then pry it down to get the clearance to get the oil pan out.. you will have to mess with it a little bit but people made it seem more complicated than it was. you will have to remove skid plate, cross member and the axle bolt and the tire.... and the oil pan bolts took about 1.5 hrs. and i could have it off cleaned gasket maker on it and back together. Back to what i was saying, I clean the rest of the debris out of the oil pan. and we put it back together... NO Change
We do this probably 4 or 5 times, to no avail.. nothing makes it better we talk to a lot of people and we had some ppl say camshaft or oil journals and its the Phasers but i forgot to mention i took the ones back and got 2 new ones and made sure it wasn't the Phasers... Finally one says to do a compression test. we finally do and .... 220 225 218 175.. all good... So what is it keep in mind for like 5 days st8 I'm thinking.. ok so I'm going to have to buy another motor.. and I'm getting so aggravated...So we try the things we should have tried first... always always always.. go the easiest routes first...!!!!! I knew this but it takes lessons like this to make you learn. Cleaned the MAF and TB and took out the o2 sensor on the side that was misfiring, it was the 2nd one... not the first one.. Bam She purred like a kitten and all cylinders are smooth as butter... So next stop exhaust shop, to confirm it was catalytic converter we plugged it back in and it was... so that's just my experience on my 5.4 3v.. and i AM getting rid of it and you should 2.. these motors go all the way up to like 2010 so needless to say i wont be getting one of these trucks ever again.. I'm now a Chevy guy ha-ha
I have Used these forums lots of times and have had some good insight so I thought I would share my experience with these turd motors...
First I bought the truck a couple years ago. And when I test drove the vehicle the fellow that had it knew what he was doing.. We proceeded down the road and he keeps checking the fuel gauge and says we cant go far.. and insist we turn around not to long into the test drive.. I did drive it and get it up to speed and it seemed to drive ok... and I really like the way this truck looked.. and I had to have it.. SO
I buy the truck and not long after I hear a faint ticking noise that progressively gets worse week by week.. The gentleman knew this had some motor issues and knew that when it gets up to operating temperature the phasers kick in and make that god awful sound I'm sure anyone reading this knows what I am talking about..
One day though, it gets real bad... actually my tailpipe from the muffler had a leak in it so I take it to the exhaust shop and have them fix it no biggie.. well the next day when I pick it up, I notice a loss of power! all on the right hand side of the motor 5 6 7 8. I do a lot of research and eventually unplug the VCT on that side... BOOM...Problem solved, the truck runs a lot better... I called the exhaust place just to see if he noticed it and if maybe something could of occurred in the process... I have no idea but something was different...SO the truck is running.. Fast forward I say ok its the VCT so I order new vcts and new seals. Nothing different. SO i come to the conclusion it is the phaser just by my readings and the way the truck is acting. I order the new Phasers and in my research i see that i could A. Get the lockouts and the programmer for roughly $700 Or B. Buy New OEM Phasers that would make it long enough for me to get rid of this truck..
SO I take the truck apart and this is not an easy job.. very time consuming not hard just time consuming.. and BTW on the passenger side valve cover.. I have seen a lot of ppl say you have t disconnect the ac and its a pain which i agree that it is.. But If you have some one pull on the ac Line and pull it away from the valve cover, be careful not to go full retard on it but just enough to give you some space, and tip it up to clear the line so that the valve cover is almost up and down.. make sure all the wiring harnesses are out of the way and take all the valve cover bolts out and this should slide out really easy. You will have to finagle it a little but way better than taking it off by lifting it barely and sliding it toward the front.. and take out the VCT as well makes it easier to... oh yea and disconnect the wiring harness all the way down to ac another plug I'm not sure what it was and the oil sensor on oil pan.
Back to what i was telling you.. the things I notice upon pulling the timing chain cover and both valve covers... The driver side cam is all dicked up... the ears n the phaser are all bent and that's why the cam sensor couldn't pick up the cam because it was to far away from the senor magnet for it to tell where it was. and the driver side guide on the bottom was broke off.. the total length is a little over 12in or so.. and I had about 4 inches left intact.. so there was the problem... the tensioners leak off oil pressure allowing the chain to smack the guides until they break and this is what happened to mine because it had went from diesel to DIESEL.. you could hear the chain slap on startup and i seen the wear marks on the chain cover. I would like to mention that these gaskets on the tensioners have paper thin gaskets. I replaced the tensioners and the guides and marked the chains and where they were on the old Phasers and just replaced the 2 Phasers and 4 guides and 2 tensioners... put it all together and it well, not great but much much quieter and the only thing was a slight rough idle.. but hey I could live with that...
One month later, On our way to haul some mowers on a trailer and it starts to lose power.. I mean we cant even climb hills.. and we start to hear the valves chatter and spark knocking and (btw i replaced the plugs in the truck 2, but mine came out with ease i just put some carb cleaner in the holes cracked them about 1/2 turn and let them set over night and they all came right out none broke..) sounding really bad. on the way back we stop at an auto zone. and the only thing it says is INT cam shaft timing. misfire 5 6 7 8 and random misfires.. so we switch vcts, cam sensors, plugs, coils. everything we can from one side to another and cant find nothing.. Get it home and back into the garage it goes.. We get a computer that you can see the functions test and watch the cylinder's and see pending codes and other codes it was like a $6k computer.. we only knew how to do really little with it.. and how to read it.. but we could see that 5 6 7 8 was all misfiring . so we start thinking it is out of time. I'm thinking since i didn't find all the pieces to the guide a piece came back out of the oil pan and went between the phaser and the chain and threw it put of time because at one point on the way home we heard a screeching sound a pulled over and after it idled, the noise went away and didn't come back. I know, i know.. why didn't i pull the pan.. I recommend that if you have it that far apart to pull the pan... because that's where all the pieces will go..
So this time we take it apart and i pull the pan and empty the pickup tube that is prolly 80% clogged with plastic pieces from the broken guide. A tip just remove the tire and the bolt holding up the axle and then pry it down to get the clearance to get the oil pan out.. you will have to mess with it a little bit but people made it seem more complicated than it was. you will have to remove skid plate, cross member and the axle bolt and the tire.... and the oil pan bolts took about 1.5 hrs. and i could have it off cleaned gasket maker on it and back together. Back to what i was saying, I clean the rest of the debris out of the oil pan. and we put it back together... NO Change
We do this probably 4 or 5 times, to no avail.. nothing makes it better we talk to a lot of people and we had some ppl say camshaft or oil journals and its the Phasers but i forgot to mention i took the ones back and got 2 new ones and made sure it wasn't the Phasers... Finally one says to do a compression test. we finally do and .... 220 225 218 175.. all good... So what is it keep in mind for like 5 days st8 I'm thinking.. ok so I'm going to have to buy another motor.. and I'm getting so aggravated...So we try the things we should have tried first... always always always.. go the easiest routes first...!!!!! I knew this but it takes lessons like this to make you learn. Cleaned the MAF and TB and took out the o2 sensor on the side that was misfiring, it was the 2nd one... not the first one.. Bam She purred like a kitten and all cylinders are smooth as butter... So next stop exhaust shop, to confirm it was catalytic converter we plugged it back in and it was... so that's just my experience on my 5.4 3v.. and i AM getting rid of it and you should 2.. these motors go all the way up to like 2010 so needless to say i wont be getting one of these trucks ever again.. I'm now a Chevy guy ha-ha
Last edited by Aaron Butcher; 05-12-2016 at 10:53 AM.