No start after phaser replacement 5.4 3v
02-16-2017, 11:07 PM
#1
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No start after phaser replacement 5.4 3v
Hi guys, sorry I didn't do an introduction but got an issue on my hand that I hope someone here can help me out with
2005 expedition 5.4 3v 131k
To start off, truck had bad phasers for a while, eventually to the point one day I lost all oil pressure on my way to work on morning, I knew exactly what had just happened but I didn't pull over immediately as I was on a highway with no shoulders, I drove it 3/4 of a mile to the first exit and and died on the off ramp, fast forward 12 later the truck starts but no oil pressure and phasers are shot.
Ok so here's the problem, I replaced the phasers, VCT, chains, guides and tensioners, fan clutch, water pump, PS pump & oil pump (melling 10340) the guides were in 50 pieces, stock oil pump failed obviously...
Put it all back together and it started up just fine and nice quite and smooth, test drive it and in the test drive notice oil pressure gauge started fluctuating, CEL came on P0011, P0021 (advance timing) but no knocking or anything. Pulled it into the shop tried to figure out what went wrong but without tearing it up again I'm clueless, left it for a few hours and decided to restart it a after erasing the CEL codes to see if they return, it started fine but once I revved a little oil pressure dips down, I held the rev at 2000rpm for 7 seconds and it started bogging and shuttering, lost all oil pressure again then it died. It now will not start anymore, it cranks but no start.
Hooked it up for codes but only showing P0345 pending, (CPS bank 2)
Drained new oil and it's full of metal flakes... Did the crankshaft just completely give out suddenly???
Or did it advance timing/jump a tooth???
I'm kinda stumped here... Not sure what my next move should be.... Any ideas?
All new parts beside oil pump are OEM motorcraft.
Kinda need this rig up and running asap it's my work truck and renting for past 3 weeks is breaking my wallet in a rush
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2005 expedition 5.4 3v 131k
To start off, truck had bad phasers for a while, eventually to the point one day I lost all oil pressure on my way to work on morning, I knew exactly what had just happened but I didn't pull over immediately as I was on a highway with no shoulders, I drove it 3/4 of a mile to the first exit and and died on the off ramp, fast forward 12 later the truck starts but no oil pressure and phasers are shot.
Ok so here's the problem, I replaced the phasers, VCT, chains, guides and tensioners, fan clutch, water pump, PS pump & oil pump (melling 10340) the guides were in 50 pieces, stock oil pump failed obviously...
Put it all back together and it started up just fine and nice quite and smooth, test drive it and in the test drive notice oil pressure gauge started fluctuating, CEL came on P0011, P0021 (advance timing) but no knocking or anything. Pulled it into the shop tried to figure out what went wrong but without tearing it up again I'm clueless, left it for a few hours and decided to restart it a after erasing the CEL codes to see if they return, it started fine but once I revved a little oil pressure dips down, I held the rev at 2000rpm for 7 seconds and it started bogging and shuttering, lost all oil pressure again then it died. It now will not start anymore, it cranks but no start.
Hooked it up for codes but only showing P0345 pending, (CPS bank 2)
Drained new oil and it's full of metal flakes... Did the crankshaft just completely give out suddenly???
Or did it advance timing/jump a tooth???
I'm kinda stumped here... Not sure what my next move should be.... Any ideas?
All new parts beside oil pump are OEM motorcraft.
Kinda need this rig up and running asap it's my work truck and renting for past 3 weeks is breaking my wallet in a rush
Top
02-17-2017, 07:49 AM
#2
05 5.4l 3v s.crew lariat
Bad news
If you lose oil pressure you must shut it down now ! I don't think you gained much by making it to the exit . That dash gauge is an idiot indicator it only means you have 7psi of pressure that is all .
No oil for even a few minutes is super serious . But by the time you noticed low pressure off you probably had some damage .
You should know that the oil pan and pickup tube needed a good cleaning ,those guide pieces block that screen with a vengeance.
I would say you need a new long block . If you would have told us this story we would have told you to pull the cams and look for scoring and cap damage . As well as metal in the pan before adding these parts . .
We are sorry you had this failure it is not an easy thing to accept . You probably blew out a tensioner then the low oil pressure took out the guides causing the pickup tube to jam up with plastic . The plastic tensioners are not good they still make the old metal ratcheting type and they are recommended now .
When you lose oil pressure on the new tensioners the chain starts whipping around destroying the guides and then jumping time . . The plastic guides are poorly designed but there is not a fix for that .
You should look at the metal with a magnet ,the chain starts eating the aluminum timing cover on the inside . You may have roller damage on the cams . I replaced all my rollers and lash adjusters .
Used engines are not the way to go ,a jasper install will run about $7500. You can do a long block for around 4k yourself . I would price a ford long block .
I guess you will be pulling timing cover again, it has most likely jumped time . Hope you can pull cams and clean her up but that severe oil loss is a killer .
Good luck and let us know .
No oil for even a few minutes is super serious . But by the time you noticed low pressure off you probably had some damage .
You should know that the oil pan and pickup tube needed a good cleaning ,those guide pieces block that screen with a vengeance.
I would say you need a new long block . If you would have told us this story we would have told you to pull the cams and look for scoring and cap damage . As well as metal in the pan before adding these parts . .
We are sorry you had this failure it is not an easy thing to accept . You probably blew out a tensioner then the low oil pressure took out the guides causing the pickup tube to jam up with plastic . The plastic tensioners are not good they still make the old metal ratcheting type and they are recommended now .
When you lose oil pressure on the new tensioners the chain starts whipping around destroying the guides and then jumping time . . The plastic guides are poorly designed but there is not a fix for that .
You should look at the metal with a magnet ,the chain starts eating the aluminum timing cover on the inside . You may have roller damage on the cams . I replaced all my rollers and lash adjusters .
Used engines are not the way to go ,a jasper install will run about $7500. You can do a long block for around 4k yourself . I would price a ford long block .
I guess you will be pulling timing cover again, it has most likely jumped time . Hope you can pull cams and clean her up but that severe oil loss is a killer .
Good luck and let us know .
02-24-2017, 11:13 AM
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Sorry for the delay guys, here's a thread on expedition forum I started the day it happened and I continously kept updating it.
http://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/there-goes-the-motor.31160/
Original motor was sludged up and the sludge was blocking oil passages, so pressure increases and eventually it forced its way out of the crankshaft bearings rendering it completely useless.
http://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/there-goes-the-motor.31160/
Original motor was sludged up and the sludge was blocking oil passages, so pressure increases and eventually it forced its way out of the crankshaft bearings rendering it completely useless.
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02-24-2017, 08:35 PM
#8
"When you lose oil pressure on the new tensioners the chain starts whipping around destroying the guides and then jumping time . . The plastic guides are poorly designed but there is not a fix for that ."
Just went down that road. I did not see in the op's firest thread that he pulled the pan. That's a must do.
Just went down that road. I did not see in the op's firest thread that he pulled the pan. That's a must do.
02-25-2017, 11:09 PM
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This truck just doesn't stop breaking! Driving it home from the shop finally and half way through it blows bank 1 exhaust manifold gasket... Sounds like the belt is squealing everytime you give it throttle! I'm getting closer and closer to setting this thing on fire and watching it burn.
02-25-2017, 11:49 PM
#10
This truck just doesn't stop breaking! Driving it home from the shop finally and half way through it blows bank 1 exhaust manifold gasket... Sounds like the belt is squealing everytime you give it throttle! I'm getting closer and closer to setting this thing on fire and watching it burn.