Need help from wiring guru(s) 04 f150
01-14-2015, 11:33 AM
#11
No worries. That makes sense on the heat.
That's the nice thing about the negative trigger... if anything ever shorts or the wire gets crimped, the body is grounded anyways. It's always safer to use a relay as you're creating more separation but it's not entirely necessary. If it grounds out, it'd be like holding the button down... it'd probably just lock you out of that function. The only other interesting situation I ran into recently with my Ford Fusion was I used the "ground while running" wire on the Compustar to turn off the automatic headlamps. I had to use a dual-pole relay (need to disconnect 1 main ground and connect another to simulate off position) and I learned that the ground while running was also ground while off. It was also completing a circuit somewhere on me as I had lost my accessory delay. To overcome this, I ended up adding a diode in the prevent it from backfeeding. You can do that to be extra-safe but I don't think it's necessary. I doubt you'll ever run into any issues tapping in directly.
As for the horn, originally years ago I used this wiring information as I didn't have my program at that time: http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/....asp?TID=46343
I don't recall the horn wire being thick because it again triggers a relay to activate the horn, so it's a simple ground. In fact, if you unplug your horn then apply ground to the wire they claim, you should hear the relay clicking over on the passenger side (fuse block). The tricky part though is I didn't want to run a wire all of the way to the BCM (rear of the cab) so I tied in under the drivers rail. I'll try to grab you a picture after.
You should be able to use either of the browns. Technically, one feeds the "fog light" SWITCH (when you pull) which is pin 2 (and feeds the fog light relay), but the power is provided through pin 12. So basically if you break off the wire going to pin 2 you should lose your fog lights but not park lights. If you break off pin 12, you should lose both. It should be just a splice in the end. I've attached two pictures to show that as well. Technically the fog lights will only work with the park lights on the way it's wired. I've modified mine for daytime running lights but that's much different.
Another thing, I'm not sure if you plan to hook up door triggers but they get real interesting on ours... If you do, let me know otherwise you'll have false alerts about doors being opened when the BCM goes to sleep.
Just in case anyone else is following this, there were wiring changes after 05 so the colors of the headlamp switch have changed.
That's the nice thing about the negative trigger... if anything ever shorts or the wire gets crimped, the body is grounded anyways. It's always safer to use a relay as you're creating more separation but it's not entirely necessary. If it grounds out, it'd be like holding the button down... it'd probably just lock you out of that function. The only other interesting situation I ran into recently with my Ford Fusion was I used the "ground while running" wire on the Compustar to turn off the automatic headlamps. I had to use a dual-pole relay (need to disconnect 1 main ground and connect another to simulate off position) and I learned that the ground while running was also ground while off. It was also completing a circuit somewhere on me as I had lost my accessory delay. To overcome this, I ended up adding a diode in the prevent it from backfeeding. You can do that to be extra-safe but I don't think it's necessary. I doubt you'll ever run into any issues tapping in directly.
As for the horn, originally years ago I used this wiring information as I didn't have my program at that time: http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/....asp?TID=46343
I don't recall the horn wire being thick because it again triggers a relay to activate the horn, so it's a simple ground. In fact, if you unplug your horn then apply ground to the wire they claim, you should hear the relay clicking over on the passenger side (fuse block). The tricky part though is I didn't want to run a wire all of the way to the BCM (rear of the cab) so I tied in under the drivers rail. I'll try to grab you a picture after.
You should be able to use either of the browns. Technically, one feeds the "fog light" SWITCH (when you pull) which is pin 2 (and feeds the fog light relay), but the power is provided through pin 12. So basically if you break off the wire going to pin 2 you should lose your fog lights but not park lights. If you break off pin 12, you should lose both. It should be just a splice in the end. I've attached two pictures to show that as well. Technically the fog lights will only work with the park lights on the way it's wired. I've modified mine for daytime running lights but that's much different.
Another thing, I'm not sure if you plan to hook up door triggers but they get real interesting on ours... If you do, let me know otherwise you'll have false alerts about doors being opened when the BCM goes to sleep.
Just in case anyone else is following this, there were wiring changes after 05 so the colors of the headlamp switch have changed.
I have to say whatever manual you have has great pin-out information. Mine is supposed to be the full service manual I got on feebay as a pdf file. It may have pin-out diagrams but I can't find them. It is still a huge help.
I'm thinking that the relays are not necessary since he horn and seats are both switch wires. By big wire (on the horn) it looks like about 18awg but the RS uses 24awg. I just followed the blue wire in the 6 pin connector behind the steering wheel (driver side, door side) back to a location that is accessible. Anyway, I may just leave the relays out and see how it goes.
01-14-2015, 11:46 AM
#12
Senior Member
Thanks again Homer. About door triggers, is that the same as door input or door sense? Terminology differs between manufacturers it seems. I am going to attach lock and unlock and (+) door input to the dome light wire. I've been told it will work since the light fades out as soon as I lock it with the fob. Supposedly, viper has a built in delay and will not activate until the dome light goes out (only takes about 2 sec or less).
I have to say whatever manual you have has great pin-out information. Mine is supposed to be the full service manual I got on feebay as a pdf file. It may have pin-out diagrams but I can't find them. It is still a huge help.
I'm thinking that the relays are not necessary since he horn and seats are both switch wires. By big wire (on the horn) it looks like about 18awg but the RS uses 24awg. I just followed the blue wire in the 6 pin connector behind the steering wheel (driver side, door side) back to a location that is accessible. Anyway, I may just leave the relays out and see how it goes.
I have to say whatever manual you have has great pin-out information. Mine is supposed to be the full service manual I got on feebay as a pdf file. It may have pin-out diagrams but I can't find them. It is still a huge help.
I'm thinking that the relays are not necessary since he horn and seats are both switch wires. By big wire (on the horn) it looks like about 18awg but the RS uses 24awg. I just followed the blue wire in the 6 pin connector behind the steering wheel (driver side, door side) back to a location that is accessible. Anyway, I may just leave the relays out and see how it goes.
No worries. With the horn, I'm just directly tied. 18AWG, that sounds like the horn output. Keep in mind, it's not holding the horn so even at 24awg it's usually just a blip. It's triggering a relay so it shouldn't draw over like 100ma, if it is I'd be real concerned haha.
Compustar has the similar option with the door sense, you can use a positive input and it has a dome light delay setting. It works *OK*, I'm just really picky hahahaha. For me, I want to know the instant that door is opened and closed. As for wiring, far more simple to go to the dome light, by a longshot!
If you do want to use negative triggers right from the door pins, you need 8 diodes with our trucks. You need to isolate each door so if you open the drivers door the computer doesn't think you're opening the other doors (using 4 diodes), then you need 4 diodes to stop the BCM from feeding back. What essentially happens is, the door pin's ground when opened but are open circuit when a door is closed. The issue is the BCM when it goes to sleep pulses the line (it's not checking as often) so the wire grounds then opens repeatedly... this false triggers the alarm. This is why you need to add a diode before the BCM at each door line to stop the BCM from creating a false report to your remote start unit. If you decide to go that route, I can draw it up. Honestly though, the dome light should work just fine.
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willy1094 (01-14-2015)
01-14-2015, 07:27 PM
#13
Homer,
I may have to do the door triggers at the BCM (I have 25 diode thanks to Amazon). I got the system installed today and it will start, lock and unlock. However, when I hit lock, the dome light does not go off so the alarm goes off. I'm not sure if there is a setting to tell the alarm to wait longer before activating. The other problem is that if I unlock the truck with the key pad on the door, it does not disarm the system. Is that because I did not hook it up to the BCM? According to this post on this forum it should have worked...http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...asp?TID=136501
Right now I have the system running on virtual tac since I was running out of time. I still plan have to run that wire, hook up the heated seats and decide if I really want to mess with the hood trigger.
I may have to do the door triggers at the BCM (I have 25 diode thanks to Amazon). I got the system installed today and it will start, lock and unlock. However, when I hit lock, the dome light does not go off so the alarm goes off. I'm not sure if there is a setting to tell the alarm to wait longer before activating. The other problem is that if I unlock the truck with the key pad on the door, it does not disarm the system. Is that because I did not hook it up to the BCM? According to this post on this forum it should have worked...http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...asp?TID=136501
Right now I have the system running on virtual tac since I was running out of time. I still plan have to run that wire, hook up the heated seats and decide if I really want to mess with the hood trigger.
01-15-2015, 01:06 PM
#14
I have a new problem. I just noticed it so I may be able to work it out but since getting the RS installed, my high beam indicator does not come on. I will have to check to make sure the high beams themselves come on when I get home (noticed this on my lunch break). Any reason why installing a RS would cause this? Also, sometime the computer display lights up when remote started and sometimes it does not. It does come on once I turn the key to run and hit the brake. Any input/ideas?
01-15-2015, 04:06 PM
#15
Senior Member
Ahhh haha, the ol' keypad... So.... The keypad has a dataline to the BCM (I believe using canbus), so you can't really tie into that. The only trick you can do is have an input to your alarm system to disarm when it see's ground (door unlock output). This get's really tricky though because you don't want someone smashing your window, pressing the unlock button which then disarms the system. I've never bothered to wire my keypad as I rarely use it but it's there for emergencies (although, it'll set the alarm off). There's ways to do it, but it'll get messy...
You're right on the lock. I'm trying to find the options table in the manual but you usually need to turn that on. Compustar it's off by default, you need to say dome light delay auto, or dome light delay 30 seconds, etc.... Not sure on the Viper.
You can get away with Virtual Tach for now, and like I say many shops do it anyways. My only concerns are, our vehicles don't have smartstart (I think 07+ F150's might) so your remote starter can overrun the starter. So it can chew up your starter over a long period of time (I know one guy who went through three) or if it's cold enough out and your battery is a bit weaker, if the cranking drops your battery enough that after the vehicle starts the voltage is low, the remote start might shut it off then try again. I've seen it where some vehicles start then stop three times (just last week again actually) because it doesn't feel it's safely running. If the voltage is 12V, it assumes the vehicle didn't start so it shuts the ignition off. The tach wire is just more safer, and when you program the tach RPM, do it with the engine warm and idle low.
Your other issue, the high beam indicator and computer display.... Did you solder your connections? Either way, check your remote start fuses. You're not powering something...... Check your ignition and accessory wires from the remote start (I took the fuse out of accessory to prevent my wipers from running during remote start if I forget them on). When you turn the key on, it's connecting all wires (Accessory + Ignition). Does the computer display come up after you turn the key to on, or after you turn the key to on and press the brake...? You didn't mistakenly pull anything in the headlamp switch did you (could happen) - not sure how that would impact the computer display though?
You're right on the lock. I'm trying to find the options table in the manual but you usually need to turn that on. Compustar it's off by default, you need to say dome light delay auto, or dome light delay 30 seconds, etc.... Not sure on the Viper.
You can get away with Virtual Tach for now, and like I say many shops do it anyways. My only concerns are, our vehicles don't have smartstart (I think 07+ F150's might) so your remote starter can overrun the starter. So it can chew up your starter over a long period of time (I know one guy who went through three) or if it's cold enough out and your battery is a bit weaker, if the cranking drops your battery enough that after the vehicle starts the voltage is low, the remote start might shut it off then try again. I've seen it where some vehicles start then stop three times (just last week again actually) because it doesn't feel it's safely running. If the voltage is 12V, it assumes the vehicle didn't start so it shuts the ignition off. The tach wire is just more safer, and when you program the tach RPM, do it with the engine warm and idle low.
Your other issue, the high beam indicator and computer display.... Did you solder your connections? Either way, check your remote start fuses. You're not powering something...... Check your ignition and accessory wires from the remote start (I took the fuse out of accessory to prevent my wipers from running during remote start if I forget them on). When you turn the key on, it's connecting all wires (Accessory + Ignition). Does the computer display come up after you turn the key to on, or after you turn the key to on and press the brake...? You didn't mistakenly pull anything in the headlamp switch did you (could happen) - not sure how that would impact the computer display though?
Last edited by homer; 01-15-2015 at 04:11 PM.
01-16-2015, 07:17 PM
#16
Ahhh haha, the ol' keypad... So.... The keypad has a dataline to the BCM (I believe using canbus), so you can't really tie into that. The only trick you can do is have an input to your alarm system to disarm when it see's ground (door unlock output). This get's really tricky though because you don't want someone smashing your window, pressing the unlock button which then disarms the system. I've never bothered to wire my keypad as I rarely use it but it's there for emergencies (although, it'll set the alarm off). There's ways to do it, but it'll get messy...
Was that an evil laugh at the beginning of your post? LOL
You can get away with Virtual Tach for now, and like I say many shops do it anyways. My only concerns are, our vehicles don't have smartstart (I think 07+ F150's might) so your remote starter can overrun the starter. So it can chew up your starter over a long period of time (I know one guy who went through three) or if it's cold enough out and your battery is a bit weaker, if the cranking drops your battery enough that after the vehicle starts the voltage is low, the remote start might shut it off then try again. I've seen it where some vehicles start then stop three times (just last week again actually) because it doesn't feel it's safely running. If the voltage is 12V, it assumes the vehicle didn't start so it shuts the ignition off. The tach wire is just more safer, and when you program the tach RPM, do it with the engine warm and idle low.
Your other issue, the high beam indicator and computer display.... Did you solder your connections? Either way, check your remote start fuses. You're not powering something...... Check your ignition and accessory wires from the remote start (I took the fuse out of accessory to prevent my wipers from running during remote start if I forget them on). When you turn the key on, it's connecting all wires (Accessory + Ignition). Does the computer display come up after you turn the key to on, or after you turn the key to on and press the brake...? You didn't mistakenly pull anything in the headlamp switch did you (could happen) - not sure how that would impact the computer display though?
I'll have to check the computer thing out more to get more detail. I do know that the time it did not come on, I had to turn the key on and then hit the brake. That's the point you are no longer on RS life support. I have to admit I have been rushing in and out of the truck or laying under the dash so I can't say for sure if it does this every time or just some of the times. I will definitely get back to you on that.
I do have another question for you. I keep my headlights on auto with fog lamps activated. When it is dark enough to activate the auto lamps, the come on with the parking lamps. It's no big deal other than I'm worried that it is pulling too much current through the RS. I think I read that you shouldn't be using that output without a relay if it is over 10 amps. Is the 12 pin wire I connected to just a relay switch or should I be switching that to a relay of my own.
01-16-2015, 07:19 PM
#17
I just wanted to add this in it's own post. I finished my install today. This could have easily been done in one day but I have a 5 month old and had to work in the few hours that the wife was able to stay with him.
I got the driver's seat set so it comes on automatically when the temp falls below 55 and the passenger seat comes on with the AUX1 command. This is the main feature I wanted to have so !!!!!!!!!!
I mounted the main RS unit behind the center dashed area. There was a HUGE space below the radio. I also put the kill switch next to the cigarette lighter. Thanks so much for all the help (Homer)!
I got the driver's seat set so it comes on automatically when the temp falls below 55 and the passenger seat comes on with the AUX1 command. This is the main feature I wanted to have so !!!!!!!!!!
I mounted the main RS unit behind the center dashed area. There was a HUGE space below the radio. I also put the kill switch next to the cigarette lighter. Thanks so much for all the help (Homer)!
Last edited by willy1094; 01-16-2015 at 07:25 PM.
01-16-2015, 11:03 PM
#18
Senior Member
I didn't realize you went direct to the dome light. That can be tricky of course in case you do leave the dome light on by mistake. I've never tested the BCM dome one though to be honest haha.
As for the headlights, yes... Up here in Canada on our versions of the F150 we have the daytime running lights and Ford did a lazy job in my opinion on our models of trucks of that. Basically it's just hard-wired to the ignition (to a degree - it still uses a relay and a resistor to dim them slightly). The downside is our trucks have the headlights on during cranking. Now in either case, it also turns on in the Auto position. I have HID's on my truck (although I might go back - they're hard on other people's eyes) so I have a relay to cut that out during cranking. The Starter solenoid wire has a connector next to the battery that is +12V during cranking so I tied a relay into that to cut out my headlights. On my fusion, I used a DPDT relay as it's trickier... you have to ground a certain wire to tell the PCM it's "OFF" then you have to disconnect the main ground to prevent the switch in another other position from grounding other wires. The fusion uses a more low-voltage style setup though and the PCM controls more of the headlights now (along with daytime running lights and such). The new F150's use low current ignition wires so they're all very low gauge as well. In tach mode it probably won't have a remote start issue with it the way it is but there's two things I worry about: 1. it does lower available cranking power, 2. certain headlight bulbs don't like this surging and it shortens the life of them. I'll give it a try later as I'm probably going to change mine too... My fusion works great because now I can see the park lights when I remote start flash as they should, with the lights in auto that doesn't happen (because they're forced on). I have a 2-way so it's not a big deal but it is kind of nice. Once I kick out the remote start, the auto mode kicks on as it should. If I do that in the near future I'll let you know for sure, it shouldn't be too hard as our switch isn't the same as the fusion (higher current).
As for the Park lights current... you're right, our switches are high current. On your viper, is that a fused Park Light Output (+) wire? Typically the Viper/Compustar/Other's have a relay built into the remote start unit and that wire is rated for 20 or so amps. If it was only rated to 200ma (which some have an alternate - wire), you would have burned it out already and lost that transistor function likely lol. Usually you won't lose the entire remote start unit, just that function as you burned the transistor out.
That space is an awesome space! I have my tilt sensor (alarm) sitting down there, and a few other things. In behind the radio is nice too as I have a Pioneer NAV and radio hahaha.
The first time you do an install, it's of course the longest. I only do them for good friends now as lying on your back kind of sucks lol. I'm also quite particular so even in a remote start, I still hook up the door pins and stuff. It's not necessary however the Compustar remote start series units, 4200/5200/6200/7200 actually have an alarm feature in them. By default, it's disabled... I leave it up to the person if they want it on or not but it'll monitor the doors. The downfall is you can't add additional sensors although Compustar did come out with a digital sensor you can add. So if you don't want the trailer loop detect and things like glass break sensor you can do it this way. Anyways haha, I'm writing a novel but the first one is always a pain. I've done so many now it's fairly easy. The ones I don't like are the new volkswagons where they don't have a bypass module currently, you have to hide a key in the dash (uncut or whatever). It used to be a cheap trick with our trucks but of course your theft protection has been lowered.
No worries on the help though. I have a few other features I've added in such as lighting my rear dome light outside when loading the quad and a few other features. I thought about adding window controls in but then I realized I really don't need them lol.
As for the headlights, yes... Up here in Canada on our versions of the F150 we have the daytime running lights and Ford did a lazy job in my opinion on our models of trucks of that. Basically it's just hard-wired to the ignition (to a degree - it still uses a relay and a resistor to dim them slightly). The downside is our trucks have the headlights on during cranking. Now in either case, it also turns on in the Auto position. I have HID's on my truck (although I might go back - they're hard on other people's eyes) so I have a relay to cut that out during cranking. The Starter solenoid wire has a connector next to the battery that is +12V during cranking so I tied a relay into that to cut out my headlights. On my fusion, I used a DPDT relay as it's trickier... you have to ground a certain wire to tell the PCM it's "OFF" then you have to disconnect the main ground to prevent the switch in another other position from grounding other wires. The fusion uses a more low-voltage style setup though and the PCM controls more of the headlights now (along with daytime running lights and such). The new F150's use low current ignition wires so they're all very low gauge as well. In tach mode it probably won't have a remote start issue with it the way it is but there's two things I worry about: 1. it does lower available cranking power, 2. certain headlight bulbs don't like this surging and it shortens the life of them. I'll give it a try later as I'm probably going to change mine too... My fusion works great because now I can see the park lights when I remote start flash as they should, with the lights in auto that doesn't happen (because they're forced on). I have a 2-way so it's not a big deal but it is kind of nice. Once I kick out the remote start, the auto mode kicks on as it should. If I do that in the near future I'll let you know for sure, it shouldn't be too hard as our switch isn't the same as the fusion (higher current).
As for the Park lights current... you're right, our switches are high current. On your viper, is that a fused Park Light Output (+) wire? Typically the Viper/Compustar/Other's have a relay built into the remote start unit and that wire is rated for 20 or so amps. If it was only rated to 200ma (which some have an alternate - wire), you would have burned it out already and lost that transistor function likely lol. Usually you won't lose the entire remote start unit, just that function as you burned the transistor out.
That space is an awesome space! I have my tilt sensor (alarm) sitting down there, and a few other things. In behind the radio is nice too as I have a Pioneer NAV and radio hahaha.
The first time you do an install, it's of course the longest. I only do them for good friends now as lying on your back kind of sucks lol. I'm also quite particular so even in a remote start, I still hook up the door pins and stuff. It's not necessary however the Compustar remote start series units, 4200/5200/6200/7200 actually have an alarm feature in them. By default, it's disabled... I leave it up to the person if they want it on or not but it'll monitor the doors. The downfall is you can't add additional sensors although Compustar did come out with a digital sensor you can add. So if you don't want the trailer loop detect and things like glass break sensor you can do it this way. Anyways haha, I'm writing a novel but the first one is always a pain. I've done so many now it's fairly easy. The ones I don't like are the new volkswagons where they don't have a bypass module currently, you have to hide a key in the dash (uncut or whatever). It used to be a cheap trick with our trucks but of course your theft protection has been lowered.
No worries on the help though. I have a few other features I've added in such as lighting my rear dome light outside when loading the quad and a few other features. I thought about adding window controls in but then I realized I really don't need them lol.
01-17-2015, 01:06 PM
#19
OK, I figured out the computer issue (non issue now). I was keeping the dome light off so it wouldn't trip the alarm. Due to my parking light being on, my dash lights were activated during remote start. Since dome light is connected to dash light, I wasn't getting anything until the RS was deactivated. Long story short, everything is great now that I have the doors wired correctly. 
Back to the headlights being on. The are only on at night, when the auto lamp feature is activated. During the day, I only have parking light. I'm wondering if the headlights might just be running off the truck's power since it is running through the auto lamp circuit.
Back to the headlights being on. The are only on at night, when the auto lamp feature is activated. During the day, I only have parking light. I'm wondering if the headlights might just be running off the truck's power since it is running through the auto lamp circuit.
01-17-2015, 09:15 PM
#20
Senior Member
oh that's interesting on the dome light, I've never tried that honestly.
Yeah, you're right on the auto lights. The daytime the park lights will be activated by the remote start and will flash to your command (unlock, lock, remote start, etc). Nighttime, the system (ignition) will automagically turn the headlamps on. That's where as I say, you lose the cranking power, the flashing at commands (during remote start) and so forth. I think we can simply use a relay and cut it but I haven't done it yet. I plan to soon though and will definitely update here. Like I say, I did it on the fusion to help with cranking and it was FAR more complicated as it's a low-voltage switch, computer controlled as opposed to ours. In the end, it was only 2 wires I needed to configure on the fusion but it's confusing as it's a combination to tell the computer what to do. For example, on the fusion if I unplug the light switch connector, the computer turns the lights on LOL, totally unexpected! I don't believe ours will do that.
Yeah, you're right on the auto lights. The daytime the park lights will be activated by the remote start and will flash to your command (unlock, lock, remote start, etc). Nighttime, the system (ignition) will automagically turn the headlamps on. That's where as I say, you lose the cranking power, the flashing at commands (during remote start) and so forth. I think we can simply use a relay and cut it but I haven't done it yet. I plan to soon though and will definitely update here. Like I say, I did it on the fusion to help with cranking and it was FAR more complicated as it's a low-voltage switch, computer controlled as opposed to ours. In the end, it was only 2 wires I needed to configure on the fusion but it's confusing as it's a combination to tell the computer what to do. For example, on the fusion if I unplug the light switch connector, the computer turns the lights on LOL, totally unexpected! I don't believe ours will do that.