willy1094

Hello,
I am going to install a viper 5706V and I have all the typical wiring planed out. However, I want to hook my heated seats to the debugger and/or the AUX output. Both can be set to pulse (-)200mA with the defogger supposedly triggering any time the temp drops below 55. I've searched the web and know that it CAN be done but haven't found any concrete wiring information.

What I know: The seats are triggered with a momentary negative (-) pulse at the EATC (electronic automatic temperature control). The wht/red is the trigger wire for the driver side and wht/yel is the passenger side.

My mom questions: If I connect the (-) pulse to these two wire right behind the switch, will that activate the seats and light the indicators on the switch? Is the 200mA enough current to activate or should I use a relay?

I could just try to figure this out with testing but thought I would check with the members here to see if anyone had concrete information.

Thanks!

homer

Ok, for starters, you suck because I wish I had the heated seats hahahaha. I'll have to add aftermarket ones like my fusion :P.

I don't know the Viper personally as I haven't installed many of them (I've worked on them) but I can pull the manual up and probably help you out. I'm more worried you may need the BITS writer to program the aux though (I have the equivalent on the Compustar).

I've attached a diagram showing that the WH/RD and WH/YL are the Request lines... so I'm going to say they're very likely low current (under 200ma). If you're really in doubt, you can always use relays instead but based on the seats having LO/HIGH status lines, I'd assume those are where the loads are. If you can, I'd test this with an ammeter first if you have one available but I'm pretty sure on those and being pulsed, they're probably very low current.

willy1094

Thanks for the reply. I bought a computer safe test light (or logic probe) to be sure it is a negative pulse but the service manual I have says it is. I have a multimeter but didn't know if the pulse would be too quick for me to get a good reading.

I don't think I'll NEED a bitwriter. It would make programming easier but all functions I need are programmable through the control unit. Since this is the only one I'll be installing I just don't see the need to buy one.

willy1094

Ok, good news! I did some playing around today with the wht/red wire. I used a logic probe and confirmed that the wire went to ground when you push the button. Then I used the multimeter to check out what kind of current went through the wire when the button was hit. This was the most troublesome area of my testing. It would range from 6 volts down to .09 volts.

I'm not sure I was doing the multimeter testing correctly. I put the red probe to a hot wire and then the black to the wht/red wire and would hit the button (this was awkward to do by myself). I'm not sure if this test really told me if the 200mA is enough or now since it was probably just trying to read the full 12V current for the wire I had the red probe to. If you or anyone else can clue me into how to test this, that would be great. Maybe red to ground and black to the wht/red???

Anyway, to the good news. I very cautiously/nervously used a jumper wire and grounded the wire and sure enough, high heat. I grounded it again and it went to low and then to off. I am inclined to think that this is hitting a relay and trigger the seats but unless someone can help me figure it out, I guess I relay both of these wires. I'm just happy that I will have a remote function for my heated seats.

These wires are something like 24 AWG and I'm thinking of using taps here instead of soldering. I know taps are the devil but these are not a "critical connection and will not have constant current. I will cheat though. I plan on cutting back the insulation and sliding the wire into the prongs to make sure they don't get cut and that I have good contact. I'm going to solder everything else.

I just have to say, for now, I'm VERY happy that I decided to do this install DIY.

willy1094

It just dawned on me that I should have been checking amps, not volts, when testing this wire. I'm still not 100% sure I know how this is done. Do I just switch my (+) probe to the AMPs plug and put it to ground, then the (-) probe to the wire and hit the button?
Thanks

homer

Usually it's very likely to be a ground controlled switch for the request line, the other two lines are probably the positives as they're likely actually powering the warmer.


You're going to have difficulty measuring current on there because it's a quick pulse... Does your meter have Min/Max mode or similar on current? To measure current though, you need to split the wire, not plug the + into +12V and - to ground, you'll literally blow the fuse in your meter (dead short). You'd have to cut that wire, strip each end back, plug the negative probe into one end and the positive into the other to complete the circuit. Not the same as checking for voltage... If you have min/max mode, the meter can tell you the maximum load it picks up, my only concern is my Fluke meter needs 350ms on DC to see that whereas that pulse might be shorter than that. This will also be likely why your volts showed 6v to .9v, the pulse is so quick that your multimeter can't actually read it fast enough.


If you were able to jump it to ground and it triggered high heat on your temperature control system, I'm going to say you're VERY likely under 200ma. It's a low current switch to trigger the air control system. I'm very confident there's no draw on that which will damage your remote start unit. The high load should be on the other two wires (PK-WH - High, VT-WH - Low) and most likely those will be +12V not ground.


It's clearly a trigger though because blipping once enables high, second time is low, third time is off, so it has to be low current. It meets the definition of it .


If you really want to try and protect it, throw a 200ma fuse inline. It probably wouldn't hurt anyways.

homer

As for the BITS writer, it doesn't look like you need it. I downloaded the manual for the 5704 (supposed to be close - can't find one for the 5706) and you can program the features in the advanced menu through the remote (similar to the compustar). The Compustar (OP500) and Viper (BITS) let you program AUX trigger durations and such but it doesn't look like you'll need it in your case. You should be able to do everything through the remote, just not as convenient haha.


The default setting on the AUX's for the 5704 will probably do exactly what you need. It is nice though that you can program AUX1 (or whichever) to trigger after remote start if you want as well. The only tricky thing is, on that mode does it happen BEFORE or AFTER remote start... if BEFORE, the climate control might shut the heated seat off during remote start (as the system turns off for maximum cranking power) appearing not to work.


The other line that might work for you is the "STATUS 2 OUTPUT" as you can configure it to "Pulse Rear Defrogger - activates 10 seconds after remote start for 800ms" if temperature is below 55F. Assuming you want the seat to automatically come on after remote start. In case you haven't found this yet .


Worst-case, you have to hit AUX when you want it on.

willy1094

Thanks homer! I was planning on using status output2 foe my driver seat banDAID 1 for pass side. That way I will automatically have heated driver seat when it's cold and can activate the other if I am going to have a passenger.

Now, about the current in the switch wire. I agree that there is probably little current used since it is just a trigger. However, do you thing I'd be better off going ahead and put them on a relay? Would there be ANY chance out damaging the truck's system if the wire is low current but I use a wire that has full ground to trigger. I have NO experience with negative triggers. I always assumed ground was just ground and did not have to worry about current Othman to match ground gauge to the hot's. If it helps, the wire appears to be 24(ish) AWG.

THANKS

willy1094

I got out to locate all the wires and have a couple questions. The horn wire is a lot heavier wire than the one one the RS ( a lot might be an exaggeration) Second question is for the parking lights. I have two brown wires behind the switch. According to my test probe, they both go positive when I turn the switch on. Which one do I use? I'll check my wire schematic but wanted to ask in case I can't figure it out.
Thanks

homer

No worries. That makes sense on the heat.

That's the nice thing about the negative trigger... if anything ever shorts or the wire gets crimped, the body is grounded anyways. It's always safer to use a relay as you're creating more separation but it's not entirely necessary. If it grounds out, it'd be like holding the button down... it'd probably just lock you out of that function. The only other interesting situation I ran into recently with my Ford Fusion was I used the "ground while running" wire on the Compustar to turn off the automatic headlamps. I had to use a dual-pole relay (need to disconnect 1 main ground and connect another to simulate off position) and I learned that the ground while running was also ground while off. It was also completing a circuit somewhere on me as I had lost my accessory delay. To overcome this, I ended up adding a diode in the prevent it from backfeeding. You can do that to be extra-safe but I don't think it's necessary. I doubt you'll ever run into any issues tapping in directly.


As for the horn, originally years ago I used this wiring information as I didn't have my program at that time: http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/....asp?TID=46343


I don't recall the horn wire being thick because it again triggers a relay to activate the horn, so it's a simple ground. In fact, if you unplug your horn then apply ground to the wire they claim, you should hear the relay clicking over on the passenger side (fuse block). The tricky part though is I didn't want to run a wire all of the way to the BCM (rear of the cab) so I tied in under the drivers rail. I'll try to grab you a picture after.


You should be able to use either of the browns. Technically, one feeds the "fog light" SWITCH (when you pull) which is pin 2 (and feeds the fog light relay), but the power is provided through pin 12. So basically if you break off the wire going to pin 2 you should lose your fog lights but not park lights. If you break off pin 12, you should lose both. It should be just a splice in the end. I've attached two pictures to show that as well. Technically the fog lights will only work with the park lights on the way it's wired. I've modified mine for daytime running lights but that's much different.

Another thing, I'm not sure if you plan to hook up door triggers but they get real interesting on ours... If you do, let me know otherwise you'll have false alerts about doors being opened when the BCM goes to sleep.


Just in case anyone else is following this, there were wiring changes after 05 so the colors of the headlamp switch have changed.