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Oh I believe you. Just trying to logically rationalize what's going on based on what we know. I am not familiar with "Standard S21001" (got mine from Freedom Ford. [3R2Z-6A257-DA] at about $230.00 a pop).
I can't find a picture of the front of the phaser. But on the rear, the alignment pin holds CAM to the center part of the phaser. The outside plate w/ fingers should be aligned where the 5th finger points at the "L". Do you agree that if the cam was where your finger is pointing, it would be ADVANCED? I could be wrong, but I don't believe that - at this point. I believe some valves would be jammed through pistons.
????
Something else must be happening - or I'm missing something. But for sure - you gotta go into it. I'd replace the oil pump too then.
Last edited by F150Torqued; 11-29-2016 at 09:21 PM.
Reason: formatting
I completely agree the fingers are not where they were when I installed them, something has it jammed. In some of my free time today, I pulled the other 3 spark plugs and put my borescope down in there to inspect, not a single mark on the top of the pistons, other then you would normally see from a good burning cylinder with 100k miles.
Hey @oneofakinder I've been thinking ! (HEAVEN HELP US). But I can't help it. My ole machine level programming days made me the analytical or hyper logical type that I am. But I am having trouble reconciling certain aspects of your particular failure. Further thought even brings more question than answers.
Most notably - HOW could that 5 Finger plate (cam position plate) on front of the Phaser became mal-positioned "Forward" (clockwise) of where it should be? The CPS detects the fingers on the cam position plate to determine Cyl #1 TDC, and thus the beganning of the firing order. -- I am convinced THIS is what resulted in it stalling out, and refusing to restart.
But Think about This - That Phaser is turning clockwise - viewing it from the front. "HOW DID THAT cam position plate get moved _forward_ relative to the Phaser gear. There are NO forces from anywhere to make the cam 'outrun' the engine - except the flimsy clock spring. All other forces would be 'drag' forces tending to cause it to go the other way, counter-clockwise. EVEN if it 'struck' something inside the VC - such as the CPS or a piece of broken guide or something. Any foreign forces would be in the opposite direction.
The cam position plate (with its 5th finger) is attached to the center spline of the phaser (the internal movable part with the oil chambers) by the Phaser bolt itself. The cam position plate is held in proper alignment with the guts of the phaser that adjusts the CAM relative to the outer gear. The clock spring attaches to the outer gear to return the cam & front plate to base position. That clock spring is the ONLY thing that applies forward (advance) force to the cam position plate. But the plate & phaser guts are squeezed tightly together against the forward end of the Camshaft by the (torque-to-yield) phaser bolt under considerable force.
In one of my earlier posts I said - I am Certain the cam is ot 45 degrees advanced. Even 10 or 15 degrees of advance will produce intake valve contact. So HOW did the cam position plate move "FORWARD" relative to the Camshaft, not to mention the Cam Phaser Gear?
Please someone REALL smart help me out. It's bugging me.
As I posted earlier - the front plate
I got my new phaser today. The cam rotated 45 degrees. The pin layed down on its side and scared the end of the cam a little. I rotated the cam back to its correct position did a compression check. 150,155,155,150. Tells me that this far there isn't any damage. I am very surprised with the results. The truck fired right up. Oh and the phaser sprung as soon as I pulled it and set it on my bench.
I think you are lucky f150torqued was able to see the problem
Not many people could tell from pictures . It has us all scratching our heads as to why it didn't damage the valves . We are happy for you . I thought for sure you were going to at least have redo one head .
I guess this is another reason to use oem phasors .
I still have mine sitting in shop,never pulled them apart to really become proficient on them .
That f150torqued is amazing .
@redfishtd, Thank you for the vote of confidence. I don't know if amazing is exactly the right term. My wife has a considerably different term for it. And perhaps she's closer to right. I can definitely get hung up (she call it ****) trying to connect the dots - and spend all night up trying to get my computer to do what "I" want it to do! lol (same thing with post #24 above).
I am still having trouble figuring it out - how the actual camshaft itself became "retarded" with the front plate (and presumably the cuts) actually advanced - as it appears by the 5th phaser finger. Hope something didn't lock down the camshaft and keep it from turning for 270º. If it did something like that - that's WAY LUCKY.
Something had to happen inside that phaser - about like in this photo of a "Dorman" phaser posted by a forum member.
I told myself not to count my chickens yet. I took it out today and it isn't right, Feels like to me the vct solenoid isn't oiling the way it's supposed to.
Feels like to me the vct solenoid isn't oiling the way it's supposed to.
Please elaborate.
Also, have you removed the pan yet? (You previously indicated _not_.) If not, you get 3 demerits, right now! With broken guides you have got pieces of broken guides in the oil pan sump (even if a piece of one 'busted' through the valve cover). I assure you, those chunks don't float in oil and sink to the bottom of the sump - RIGHT BELOW THE PICKUP SCREEN. They get sucked up clogging it. That results in the oil pump 'caveating' - sending oil bubbles through the oil system - knocking your oil pressure to heck (downward). (Because Air bubbles compress and Oil does not). THAT, would result in your suspected symptom.
ALSO: Please help me out of my confusion. You originally reported low compression on Cyl's 1,2,3,4 and that the cam was actually stuck fairly retarded. That all makes uniform sense. BUT ---- I just figured out that the Phaser in the photo you posted, that I said looks to be "Advanced" (per the position of the 5th finger) is on the DRIVER SIDE (Bank 2). Did you replace both Phasers? Did you remove front cover? I think it would be VERY difficult (though possible) to verify proper chain timing without removing FC. Please help us out here?
Hopefully some of the other more qualified members are still with us on this problem.
Last edited by F150Torqued; 12-02-2016 at 05:06 PM.
Reason: Clarified position in phaser photo
11-29-2016, 06:35 PM
You originally reported low compression on Cyl's 1,2,3,4 and that the cam was actually stuck fairly retarded. That all makes uniform sense. BUT ---- I just figured out that the Phaser in the photo you posted, that I said looks to be "Advanced" (per the position of the 5th finger) is on the DRIVER SIDE (Bank 2). Did you replace both Phasers? Did you remove front cover? I think it would be VERY difficult (though possible) to verify proper chain timing without removing FC. Please help us out here?