Idle noise -- Normal or phasers?
12-01-2014, 09:21 PM
#11
It sounds like this is most likely the dreaded cam phaser issue that these 3 valve modular engines are famous for. Every 3v mod engine will experience a cam phaser problem at some point in its lifespan. The internals wear, tolerances change, oil passages clog, etc. This then causes the phasers to not get the proper amount of oil pressure needed to operate correctly. Starts out as a sound and then eventually can lead to a failure which can damage the engine. We have guys tell us they have replaced phasers and components two or 3 times and it eventually always comes back. The issue is also easy to spot when they do not do it at cold start but once the engine warms up the oil pressure drops and the phasers then start to knock or tick at idle.
That being said we developed a cam phaser noise repair kit which is the only complete kit that is a permanent solution to the problem. The kit locks the phasers so that you will never have this issue again and you can still use your stock phasers if they are not damaged. Our kit includes the lockouts, the cam phaser bolts you have to change, the wedge tool to help make the installation easier, and our tuning device to allow your vehicle to perform properly after the timing is locked. The lockouts can be installed by removing the valve covers as well with our wedge tool which takes roughly half the labor as removing the entire timing cover would.
Click here for more information on this issue and to view our repair kit as well.
Here is a video of what they sound like before and after which is very similar to your sound in my opinion.
Cam Phaser Noise Repair Kit - Ford 3-Valve 4.6 / 5.4 V8 Engines - YouTube
That being said we developed a cam phaser noise repair kit which is the only complete kit that is a permanent solution to the problem. The kit locks the phasers so that you will never have this issue again and you can still use your stock phasers if they are not damaged. Our kit includes the lockouts, the cam phaser bolts you have to change, the wedge tool to help make the installation easier, and our tuning device to allow your vehicle to perform properly after the timing is locked. The lockouts can be installed by removing the valve covers as well with our wedge tool which takes roughly half the labor as removing the entire timing cover would.
Click here for more information on this issue and to view our repair kit as well.
Here is a video of what they sound like before and after which is very similar to your sound in my opinion.
Cam Phaser Noise Repair Kit - Ford 3-Valve 4.6 / 5.4 V8 Engines - YouTube
So are you guaranteeing that the ticking noise is from the cam phasers? and that this product will permanently fix the tick and possible any damage on the cam phasers down the road? I hear all this talk on lash adjusters and fuel injectors being the problem, so are y'all claiming this will FOR SURE, stop the ticking noise? I can't stand it and if it doesn't fix it I would be upset because I only want the ticking fixed at this point. Sorry for the rant it's just the ticking has driven me crazy and if it could fix the tick AND any future cam phaser problems guaranteed, I will definitely invest in the lockouts.
12-02-2014, 01:03 AM
#12
Senior Member
If you go the lockout route, you still need to replace the tensioners, guides, and chains. A lot of people have had to replace the phasers before they lock them out also, because the phasers were damaged too much. You can use a mechanics stethoscope (or big screw driver, rebar, whatever) to try to determine if your lash adjusters are making noises, but the best way to determine if they need to be replaced is by taking the valve cover off and inspecting them.
If you don't replace the tensioners, you're oil pressure will still be lower than it should be which can result in more engine damage.
If you don't replace the tensioners, you're oil pressure will still be lower than it should be which can result in more engine damage.
12-02-2014, 08:24 AM
#13
If you go the lockout route, you still need to replace the tensioners, guides, and chains. A lot of people have had to replace the phasers before they lock them out also, because the phasers were damaged too much. You can use a mechanics stethoscope (or big screw driver, rebar, whatever) to try to determine if your lash adjusters are making noises, but the best way to determine if they need to be replaced is by taking the valve cover off and inspecting them.
If you don't replace the tensioners, you're oil pressure will still be lower than it should be which can result in more engine damage.
If you don't replace the tensioners, you're oil pressure will still be lower than it should be which can result in more engine damage.
12-02-2014, 03:37 PM
#14
F150 Forum
So are you guaranteeing that the ticking noise is from the cam phasers? and that this product will permanently fix the tick and possible any damage on the cam phasers down the road? I hear all this talk on lash adjusters and fuel injectors being the problem, so are y'all claiming this will FOR SURE, stop the ticking noise? I can't stand it and if it doesn't fix it I would be upset because I only want the ticking fixed at this point. Sorry for the rant it's just the ticking has driven me crazy and if it could fix the tick AND any future cam phaser problems guaranteed, I will definitely invest in the lockouts.
We sell in upwards of 200+ of these cam phaser noise repair kits per month and with nothing but positive feedback. We also have wholesale accounts that sell rebuilt engines with our lockouts already installed so they never have any warranty repair work come back from the engine having this dreaded cam phaser problem they will all eventually have at some point. Some shops like this by these kits 20 at a time just to stock the shelves because they know they will all need them installed eventually.
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Brunswick592 (12-02-2014)
12-02-2014, 03:41 PM
#15
F150 Forum
Feel free to read some of the customer reviews about this kit on our website which can be found by clicking here.
Here is one for example that is pretty in depth from a customer that was extremely saitisfied after running into the cam phaser issues multiple times with no luck until he found our product.
"Long life for my F150 "Now"! *****
Posted by Cameron Sipe, Pittsboro, NC on 18th Nov 2014
I have a 2007 F150 with the 5.4 3V Triton. I had heard horror stories about the cam phasers, so I tried multiple preventative maintenance efforts “everything I could find on the web” to avoid my trucks phasers failing including changing both VCTs. However, at 130k my truck started running rough when backing down to idle. I could shift to neutral, rev the engine and then back it down to idle slowly and it would smooth out. I have a friend with a 2006 F150 that continued to drive his with these symptoms and eventually jumped timing, broke valves and he replaced his motor. I wanted to avoid this. After a lot of research on the web, learning about the phaser operation, I found the Livernois website and learned about the lockout kit. I did more research and thinking about how simple of a solution the lockout would be for this problem. I decided that I had to do something before additional damage to my engine occurs. I ordered the lockout kit with tuner and also ordered a timing chain kit. I decided that at 130k, I should replace the plastic chain guides in this “designed for limited life” motor. After 3 nights in my work shop, the easiest part of the job was pulling the phasers and installing the blocks. After down loading the tuner program, I said a prayer and started my truck. It started right up and test drove fine. I put 50 miles on it that evening and it was very smooth without any loss in power. I am now way more confident that my F150 will keep going beyond 200k miles.
I can’t thank you enough for your product. It is a very simple solution for a problem that has caused many F150 owners pain in the head and wallet. "
Here is one for example that is pretty in depth from a customer that was extremely saitisfied after running into the cam phaser issues multiple times with no luck until he found our product.
"Long life for my F150 "Now"! *****
Posted by Cameron Sipe, Pittsboro, NC on 18th Nov 2014
I have a 2007 F150 with the 5.4 3V Triton. I had heard horror stories about the cam phasers, so I tried multiple preventative maintenance efforts “everything I could find on the web” to avoid my trucks phasers failing including changing both VCTs. However, at 130k my truck started running rough when backing down to idle. I could shift to neutral, rev the engine and then back it down to idle slowly and it would smooth out. I have a friend with a 2006 F150 that continued to drive his with these symptoms and eventually jumped timing, broke valves and he replaced his motor. I wanted to avoid this. After a lot of research on the web, learning about the phaser operation, I found the Livernois website and learned about the lockout kit. I did more research and thinking about how simple of a solution the lockout would be for this problem. I decided that I had to do something before additional damage to my engine occurs. I ordered the lockout kit with tuner and also ordered a timing chain kit. I decided that at 130k, I should replace the plastic chain guides in this “designed for limited life” motor. After 3 nights in my work shop, the easiest part of the job was pulling the phasers and installing the blocks. After down loading the tuner program, I said a prayer and started my truck. It started right up and test drove fine. I put 50 miles on it that evening and it was very smooth without any loss in power. I am now way more confident that my F150 will keep going beyond 200k miles.
I can’t thank you enough for your product. It is a very simple solution for a problem that has caused many F150 owners pain in the head and wallet. "
12-02-2014, 06:05 PM
#16
What I can say is that this is guaranteed to solve the issue with the mechanical portion of the phaser that requires to be oil fed. This is the portion that allows the phaser to have a sweep or range of motion that will advance and retard timing. By eliminating the moving portion of the phaser and locking it fully advance it then becomes basically a fixed gear / sprocket. So if that is the only issue with the vehicle then yes that will fix the problem permanently. You then load our tune to the vehicle so that it can run properly with the timing locked in the full advance position. With out having your engine here to tear down and inspect, there is now way for us to say that is exactly what is wrong with the vehicle.
We sell in upwards of 200+ of these cam phaser noise repair kits per month and with nothing but positive feedback. We also have wholesale accounts that sell rebuilt engines with our lockouts already installed so they never have any warranty repair work come back from the engine having this dreaded cam phaser problem they will all eventually have at some point. Some shops like this by these kits 20 at a time just to stock the shelves because they know they will all need them installed eventually.
We sell in upwards of 200+ of these cam phaser noise repair kits per month and with nothing but positive feedback. We also have wholesale accounts that sell rebuilt engines with our lockouts already installed so they never have any warranty repair work come back from the engine having this dreaded cam phaser problem they will all eventually have at some point. Some shops like this by these kits 20 at a time just to stock the shelves because they know they will all need them installed eventually.
12-02-2014, 06:33 PM
#17
F150 Forum
Yes unfortunately this was a TSB that the vehicles manufacturer was aware of from years back. They just kept replacing the components on the 3 valve engines with new phaser designs that required less oil pressure, but the problem would eventually come back over time. The issue lies in the fact that as these engines wear internally clearances change, oil passages get smaller , and eventually oil cannot get to the phasers properly the more miles you get on the engine.
So they will all eventually have a never ending problem which then leads shops to tell customers they need a new engine. Several times a day I hear this from guys on the phone that are sick of putting new phasers on and then being told if it comes back you need to rebuild / replace the engine. That is very costly versus our kit and not to mention the amount of time it takes to install. Our kit is the only complete package that is a permanent solution to this nightmare of a problem that every 3 valve 5.4L truck, SUV, 4.6L 3 valve, even mustangs will eventually need. Saves lots of time and money in the long run not to mention the huge amount of frustration from trying to figure out the problem.
12-03-2014, 08:53 AM
#18
You are very welcome!
Yes unfortunately this was a TSB that the vehicles manufacturer was aware of from years back. They just kept replacing the components on the 3 valve engines with new phaser designs that required less oil pressure, but the problem would eventually come back over time. The issue lies in the fact that as these engines wear internally clearances change, oil passages get smaller , and eventually oil cannot get to the phasers properly the more miles you get on the engine.
So they will all eventually have a never ending problem which then leads shops to tell customers they need a new engine. Several times a day I hear this from guys on the phone that are sick of putting new phasers on and then being told if it comes back you need to rebuild / replace the engine. That is very costly versus our kit and not to mention the amount of time it takes to install. Our kit is the only complete package that is a permanent solution to this nightmare of a problem that every 3 valve 5.4L truck, SUV, 4.6L 3 valve, even mustangs will eventually need. Saves lots of time and money in the long run not to mention the huge amount of frustration from trying to figure out the problem.
Livernois Motorsports Cam Phaser Lockout Instructional Video - YouTube
Yes unfortunately this was a TSB that the vehicles manufacturer was aware of from years back. They just kept replacing the components on the 3 valve engines with new phaser designs that required less oil pressure, but the problem would eventually come back over time. The issue lies in the fact that as these engines wear internally clearances change, oil passages get smaller , and eventually oil cannot get to the phasers properly the more miles you get on the engine.
So they will all eventually have a never ending problem which then leads shops to tell customers they need a new engine. Several times a day I hear this from guys on the phone that are sick of putting new phasers on and then being told if it comes back you need to rebuild / replace the engine. That is very costly versus our kit and not to mention the amount of time it takes to install. Our kit is the only complete package that is a permanent solution to this nightmare of a problem that every 3 valve 5.4L truck, SUV, 4.6L 3 valve, even mustangs will eventually need. Saves lots of time and money in the long run not to mention the huge amount of frustration from trying to figure out the problem.
Livernois Motorsports Cam Phaser Lockout Instructional Video - YouTube
12-03-2014, 10:09 AM
#19
F150 Forum
This is great to know! And everything that comes with the Livernois lockouts are the only things I need to replace to fix the cam phasers? I don't need new tensioners or anything? And what kind of effect do these lockouts have on the actual performance of the vehicle?
12-03-2014, 11:25 AM
#20
Senior Member
I feel I (or at least somebody) need to step in here and clarify a few things.
I'm not going to put down the Livernois lockout's by any means. It's a great product for what it is. However, it is not a "fix" by itself. If all you do is install these, you're motor will suffer more damage. What you have to remember, is that components (such as phasers) fail for a reason. That reason needs to be rectified.
In the case of the phasers, they fail because of improper oil pressure, 9 out of 10 times. Either the internal guide pins or the vanes break, causing the "diesel" noise.
In most cases that I have heard or read about, the cause has been either the tensioner gaskets or the vct solenoids. When they fail, oil pressure is affected throughout the motor. This also causes chains to go slack and slap against the guides (even if you don't hear it). The guides will eventually break and can block the oil pump, which obviously causes more problems. You can trash your head by not having proper oil pressure.
The point is that unless you rectify the original problem, you aren't really fixing anything.
I'm not going to put down the Livernois lockout's by any means. It's a great product for what it is. However, it is not a "fix" by itself. If all you do is install these, you're motor will suffer more damage. What you have to remember, is that components (such as phasers) fail for a reason. That reason needs to be rectified.
In the case of the phasers, they fail because of improper oil pressure, 9 out of 10 times. Either the internal guide pins or the vanes break, causing the "diesel" noise.
In most cases that I have heard or read about, the cause has been either the tensioner gaskets or the vct solenoids. When they fail, oil pressure is affected throughout the motor. This also causes chains to go slack and slap against the guides (even if you don't hear it). The guides will eventually break and can block the oil pump, which obviously causes more problems. You can trash your head by not having proper oil pressure.
The point is that unless you rectify the original problem, you aren't really fixing anything.