How to Tell if Cam Phasers are Bad
04-29-2014, 12:43 PM
#1
Texas A&M Aggie
Thread Starter
How to Tell if Cam Phasers are Bad
Okay so like the title states I'm curious how to tell if they're bad in a more concrete way than a noise without pulling the cover or if that's even possible. I'd hate to think it was the phasers, replace them, and it's just the VCT solenoids or injector noise. Anyone have any suggestions?
04-29-2014, 02:30 PM
#3
Senior Member
I am not a mechanic and have not done these repairs, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I am only conveying what I have been told by mechanics and other Ford guys who love their trucks.
Replacing a VCT solenoid with a bad cam phaser still in the truck will likely put more pressure into the system since the old VCT was most likely damaged by the bad cam phaser in the first place. This also means your new VCT will more than likely be damaged in the same manner after a while. There's also no moving parts in a VCT solenoid, so the ticking is definitely not coming from that.
Really far gone cam phasers can destroy a VCT, causing the timing of the engine to be so far gone it doesn't even idle (or start) once it gets warm and the system goes out of "warmup" mode, so watch out for changing a potentially bad VCT and not changing the associated cam phaser.
As for diagnosis, you can notice a slight hiccup that feels like a miss sometimes when trying to get up and go. On my truck it was noticeable mostly at freeway speeds when trying to pass going 50mph and trying to get back up to speed. It can also cause a tick although nobody has ever explained to me what causes it past telling me that it's caused by the alignment pins on the cam phasers getting bent.
Maybe a real mechanic can come along and give you some more insight but I hope I at least helped a little.
Replacing a VCT solenoid with a bad cam phaser still in the truck will likely put more pressure into the system since the old VCT was most likely damaged by the bad cam phaser in the first place. This also means your new VCT will more than likely be damaged in the same manner after a while. There's also no moving parts in a VCT solenoid, so the ticking is definitely not coming from that.
Really far gone cam phasers can destroy a VCT, causing the timing of the engine to be so far gone it doesn't even idle (or start) once it gets warm and the system goes out of "warmup" mode, so watch out for changing a potentially bad VCT and not changing the associated cam phaser.
As for diagnosis, you can notice a slight hiccup that feels like a miss sometimes when trying to get up and go. On my truck it was noticeable mostly at freeway speeds when trying to pass going 50mph and trying to get back up to speed. It can also cause a tick although nobody has ever explained to me what causes it past telling me that it's caused by the alignment pins on the cam phasers getting bent.
Maybe a real mechanic can come along and give you some more insight but I hope I at least helped a little.
04-29-2014, 03:36 PM
#4
Senior Member
04-30-2014, 11:52 AM
#6
Texas A&M Aggie
Thread Starter
I am not a mechanic and have not done these repairs, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I am only conveying what I have been told by mechanics and other Ford guys who love their trucks.
Replacing a VCT solenoid with a bad cam phaser still in the truck will likely put more pressure into the system since the old VCT was most likely damaged by the bad cam phaser in the first place. This also means your new VCT will more than likely be damaged in the same manner after a while. There's also no moving parts in a VCT solenoid, so the ticking is definitely not coming from that.
Really far gone cam phasers can destroy a VCT, causing the timing of the engine to be so far gone it doesn't even idle (or start) once it gets warm and the system goes out of "warmup" mode, so watch out for changing a potentially bad VCT and not changing the associated cam phaser.
As for diagnosis, you can notice a slight hiccup that feels like a miss sometimes when trying to get up and go. On my truck it was noticeable mostly at freeway speeds when trying to pass going 50mph and trying to get back up to speed. It can also cause a tick although nobody has ever explained to me what causes it past telling me that it's caused by the alignment pins on the cam phasers getting bent.
Maybe a real mechanic can come along and give you some more insight but I hope I at least helped a little.
Replacing a VCT solenoid with a bad cam phaser still in the truck will likely put more pressure into the system since the old VCT was most likely damaged by the bad cam phaser in the first place. This also means your new VCT will more than likely be damaged in the same manner after a while. There's also no moving parts in a VCT solenoid, so the ticking is definitely not coming from that.
Really far gone cam phasers can destroy a VCT, causing the timing of the engine to be so far gone it doesn't even idle (or start) once it gets warm and the system goes out of "warmup" mode, so watch out for changing a potentially bad VCT and not changing the associated cam phaser.
As for diagnosis, you can notice a slight hiccup that feels like a miss sometimes when trying to get up and go. On my truck it was noticeable mostly at freeway speeds when trying to pass going 50mph and trying to get back up to speed. It can also cause a tick although nobody has ever explained to me what causes it past telling me that it's caused by the alignment pins on the cam phasers getting bent.
Maybe a real mechanic can come along and give you some more insight but I hope I at least helped a little.
Does anyone know if the guides and tensioners are more durable in the 07's than the 04's? I remember reading somewhere that Ford redesigned the phasers in 06 I believe so I'm not sure if they did everything or not.
04-30-2014, 02:30 PM
#7
Senior Member
Even if it's wrong it sounds legitimate. I've got the tick which is really annoying when driving with the windows down, or going through a drive-thru. One of my friends did his not too long ago and told me to do the guides, chains, and tensioners too because his tensioner seals were gone and the guides were broke in half. He had 115K on his, mine has a little over 150K so I figure mine probably needs it.
Does anyone know if the guides and tensioners are more durable in the 07's than the 04's? I remember reading somewhere that Ford redesigned the phasers in 06 I believe so I'm not sure if they did everything or not.
Does anyone know if the guides and tensioners are more durable in the 07's than the 04's? I remember reading somewhere that Ford redesigned the phasers in 06 I believe so I'm not sure if they did everything or not.
As for the redesign I'm honestly clueless. I know when I had my truck repaired the parts that went back in here exactly the same as the ones that came out of the truck. I would assume from this experience that there is not a "better" redesigned part to be had. That or the shop was incompetent, which is entirely possible considering it was a dealership.
To better understand the cam phaser and VCT system, check out this video. It's for a DOHC Inline 4, but the principle and functionality are the same for our trucks, we just only have one cam, so one VCT and cam phaser per bank.
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VendettaWolf13 (05-19-2023)
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04-30-2014, 03:47 PM
#8
Texas A&M Aggie
Thread Starter
My truck also had a really loud tick, especially under light throttle (like going through a drive-through). The sound turned out to be from one of the plastic guides being broken and making contact with the chain due to wear on the chain tensioners allowing the chain to hit it repeatedly, breaking it. It also made my truck sound like their were marbles in the engine during cold startup due to the chain hitting the broken pieces of guides and tensioners sitting in the bottom of the front housing.
As for the redesign I'm honestly clueless. I know when I had my truck repaired the parts that went back in here exactly the same as the ones that came out of the truck. I would assume from this experience that there is not a "better" redesigned part to be had. That or the shop was incompetent, which is entirely possible considering it was a dealership.
To better understand the cam phaser and VCT system, check out this video. It's for a DOHC Inline 4, but the principle and functionality are the same for our trucks, we just only have one cam, so one VCT and cam phaser per bank.
Ford 1,6L Duratec 16V Ti-VCT Engine - YouTube
As for the redesign I'm honestly clueless. I know when I had my truck repaired the parts that went back in here exactly the same as the ones that came out of the truck. I would assume from this experience that there is not a "better" redesigned part to be had. That or the shop was incompetent, which is entirely possible considering it was a dealership.
To better understand the cam phaser and VCT system, check out this video. It's for a DOHC Inline 4, but the principle and functionality are the same for our trucks, we just only have one cam, so one VCT and cam phaser per bank.
Ford 1,6L Duratec 16V Ti-VCT Engine - YouTube
04-30-2014, 07:42 PM
#9
Try this...
On this system, when the PCM sends the PWM signal of 0%, or simply off, the spool valve is moved so that the oil is allowed to fully advance the timing. On this system, fully advanced is simply normal or rather no change to the timing. As the PCM sends a PWM signal of more than 0%, the spool valve moves and starts to allow the pressure to equalize between the advance and retard sides of the phaser. At a PWM signal of 50%, the valve is in the neutral position, neither allowing oil to drain or pressurize either side of the phaser. The PCM has it essentially locked into holding wherever it currently is. As the PWM signal increases further, cam timing retards.
Simply unplugging the VCT solenoid will default the spool valve in the fully advanced position. If there are any detected faults in the system, the PCM will keep the solenoid off so the phaser stays in the default position. The locking pins are prone to failure and unintentionally allow the camshaft sprocket to rotate separately from the chain when not currently in active use. As the camshaft turns, it fights against the valve spring force causing the phaser to jump back and forth at lower RPMs. This causes a rattle. These excessive forces on the chain could also lead to timing tensioner, chain, or guide failure.
This fight of tension is why heavier oils 5w-30 can soften the clacking of the phaser slapping its veins back and forth.
On this system, when the PCM sends the PWM signal of 0%, or simply off, the spool valve is moved so that the oil is allowed to fully advance the timing. On this system, fully advanced is simply normal or rather no change to the timing. As the PCM sends a PWM signal of more than 0%, the spool valve moves and starts to allow the pressure to equalize between the advance and retard sides of the phaser. At a PWM signal of 50%, the valve is in the neutral position, neither allowing oil to drain or pressurize either side of the phaser. The PCM has it essentially locked into holding wherever it currently is. As the PWM signal increases further, cam timing retards.
Simply unplugging the VCT solenoid will default the spool valve in the fully advanced position. If there are any detected faults in the system, the PCM will keep the solenoid off so the phaser stays in the default position. The locking pins are prone to failure and unintentionally allow the camshaft sprocket to rotate separately from the chain when not currently in active use. As the camshaft turns, it fights against the valve spring force causing the phaser to jump back and forth at lower RPMs. This causes a rattle. These excessive forces on the chain could also lead to timing tensioner, chain, or guide failure.
This fight of tension is why heavier oils 5w-30 can soften the clacking of the phaser slapping its veins back and forth.
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08-25-2019, 09:00 PM
#10
Okay so like the title states I'm curious how to tell if they're bad in a more concrete way than a noise without pulling the cover or if that's even possible. I'd hate to think it was the phasers, replace them, and it's just the VCT solenoids or injector noise. Anyone have any suggestions?