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Summers, I haven't checked the part numbers of the guides that you posted yet but if they are the plastic ones, there are steel guides available as well. In hind sight even though all of my components changed were the OEM plastic ones, I wish that I would have used the steel ones. I believe F150torqued listed all of the metal part numbers on this thread a couple months ago as well.
Oh, and if you do go into the engine to do the work, I would change the water pump as well since its right there. Gaskets are reusable but pick up a set of valve cover gaskets because a couple members (myself included) have rolled or torn one of the VC gaskets during re-installation.
When I did mine, I also changed out the lash adjusters and followers as well just to make sure that there was no ticking noise after, glad that I did, because I found 13 out of 24 bad lash adjusters.
Good luck
Tom
@vintageman
I think I did post a list parts for my 2004 timing job - but I can't find the post (even with Advanced Search) -damn it!
But I did extensive research and gathered up parts for MONTHS as my social security checks permitted, and reviewing my research indicates that @Summers22 has the correct part numbers for the Steel tensioners: F6AZ-6L266-CA and F6AZ-6L266-DA.
However, based on price (@ $77.00 for the pair then) I wound up ordering them from:
They are "Sturdy as hell" and fit my 2004 5.4L 3v just fine. The thin metal gasket set that comes with them could not be used because the oil passage from the block doesn't align properly with the gasket - but the tensioner casting itself has a passageway routed to the correct location. I mounted them directly to the block and THEY WORK FINE. The tensioner plunger seats perfectly in the center of the spot on the inside of the tensioner arm.
As for METAL GUIDES ---- After ALL MY RESEARCH, I could ONLY find Metal Tensioner Arms - which I did purchase (for hellishly expensive $259.00 for the pair). I ordered them from MMR (Mustang MotorSports Racing). But I could NEVER find metal "guides" themselves. And I still have never seen or heard of anyone supplying them. Totally Unfortunate because they are the ones that always break - not the Tensioner Arms. But the MMR tensioner arms are extremely high quality stuff and said to eliminate flex - evenly distributing tensioner's force along the length of the chain - instead center allowing chain to slap. (But I doubt they make my truck run faster!).
I also got my lash adjusters & roller/followers from MMR. And they were supper on customer service! AND I agree with @vintageman. I highly recommend replacing them as part of the job. I believe THEY are the source of the "TICK".
The reason the guides break is because of the amount of movement allowed in the first place. I think its been said that there is an entire 60 degree movement between retarded and advanced.
No movement, no breaking.
I am glad to see you go with the steel tensioners with the ratcheting system.
That's the only other thing wrong with the entire system imo.
Mike
Mike, may I respectfully make a couple of contra opinions for everyone's consideration on the subject?.
The movement allowed (or imposed is a better word) by the Phasers is strictly axial to the camshaft only, and imposes no change in stress or forces on the chains or phaser gear teeth. They only shift the cam lobes relationship to the teeth positions on the pahser sprockets. I suspect (though I have no way to prove) the forces that valve spring tension exerts on chain links / sproket teeth would the same - whether the cams are full advanced or full retarded. You are correct, the Phasers are able to change the valve opening / closing instances with relation to crankshaft position up to sixty (60º) crankshaft degrees. But IMO, 'axial' rotation of camshaft would make zero difference in torque required to open / close valves, the speed of camshaft rotation, or the frequency of the torque oscillations the cam lobes exerts on chains/gears/guides.
I believe what breaks guides is Tensioners that are not keeping proper tension on Chains due to: 1.) compromised tensioner gaskets degrading cyl head / phaser Oil Pressures, or 2.) Chains that have stretched due to normal life span wear to the point the tensioners are fully extended and still cannot push all the slack out of the chains. At 212,000 miles I believe THAT effect is what began to produce my P0022 DTC - and made mulch of my guides.
Anytime the Chains have slack - they can pop the slack like a bull whip with significant force and break the plastic guides. This can occur on initial startup when oil pressure is inadequate to pump up tensioners, (hence the reason I like the ratcheting type tensioners), or if the engine misfires under load or backfires. NONE of these conditions are "cured" with "Lockouts" - or as we suggest, quarter inch bolts with locking nut jammed in the Phaser!
There's my two cents, and given completely without malice.
Hi guys! Nice thread. Just picked up a 2004 with 150k and a loud tick at all temp, rpm, conditions. Cold, hot, uphill, downhill, idle, all the time. I'm gonna do all the timing stuff and lifters, rockers, etc. I'm more familiar with bmw where there are some basic guidelines of what to do while you're in there, like when you do the cooling you do it all and it's all good for 80k or whatever. I've called the dealers around me and none of them so far have a record of servicing it, so I think it's been oil changed, and air filtered, and driven until it started ticking and sold. Truck feels like it has about half the power it should have.
I need to look at it better to see if the radiator or anything has been replaced but just wondering what you would do if you wanted to be thorough and make it reliable on the road. So far this is what I've got, mostly based on my bmw experience which seems reasonable I guess:
phasers, chains, guides, tensioners, etc the motorcraft kit.
lifters and rockers
what about the timing solenoids?
oil pump
water pump
belt tensioners
hoses? (the cooling will be open anyway to do the timing stuff right?)
radiator?
thermostat?
What else is going to be off or obvious to change on a 150k mile truck so I can go down the road with confidence that I won't be stranded?
Sounds like you basically have it scoped out pretty good.
"What about the timing solenoids?" - I would say replace to make sure you have the updated ones with "-B" suffix part number.
"Hoses? radiator? thermostat?" optional based on inspection. (I removed the radiator to gain better access - so I flushed the system before breaking her down, and replaced thermostat as a part of that effort. She locks on 195º all the time now.)
Tensioners - my recommendation is go with Cast Iron ratchet style.
You won't know until inside - but with your report of "CONSTANT" tick ALL the time, I suspect you have a bad rocker/roller. If the roller seized - you could have a scored Cam that needs replacing.
Finally - once valve covers are off - observe correct engine position before tearing her down so chain timing will be straight forward and pose no problems. AND I recommend removing solenoid valve bodies and cleaning the out real good, including the fine screen filters inside them.
I will PM you a little additional information that will help with the job.
Okay that helps on the solenoids, I'll look at that.
I'll look at the radiator and see if that makes sense to do now or put off.
I underestimated the cost of this but I like the truck and it was a pretty good price so it's okay, and from what I can tell this situation is a distinct possibility with any of the trucks I can afford so might as well get it for less and put the mechanicals straight.
Well 2k to 2.5k ain't too bad. We've been talking about 'fixin it right'. Mine was one owner at least, but I put on an aftermarket oil pressure gauge and did a 'wet & dry' compression check before I sprang for the whole enchilada. Those results coming back excellent, and I didn't have any CAM damage - I suspect I've got a cool 200 - 250 k more good miles in her. That's good because I still love the ole '04 F150.
Funny that you said that about compression, I realized this am that would have been a good idea to do first. I did find a shop that has worked on the truck, their oil change sticker was in the window. The truck is one owner and they guy just fixed what was wrong at the moment and that was it - pretty much what I figured. So the shop said they did one or two spark plugs, and two coil packs, and one plug had to be thread repaired, he thinks with the napa kit possibly. I did enjoy this part, I told him I was unsure about removing the repaired plug and he says, well you should change all the plugs. Great advice, and I guess he told the previous owner that too and got a no answer but I was kind of shaking my head on the phone as he kind of lectured me. That was my second call to him in two days and he's getting grumpy on the phone which is funny too. I've got plugs coming today so hopefully this weekend I get those in and assess this thread repair situation.
They used probably Chinese cops and they are grey not black. I pulled the wiring off the two grey cops and the truck didn't flinch so I suspect at least one of those cylinders aren't firing much. It would explain why it drives like a v6 running on five cylinders.
I guess the plan is to change the plugs that have not been thread repaired and see how it drives. I have a feeling that taking out the repaired plug will take out the insert, and even if it doesn't I'd have to get another napa plug because it may be that doofy long plug setup that's proprietary. Ultimately I want it done right but it may help a lot to get two real cops and change the rest of the plugs. I see the price of the timesert kit and that could make sense long term if the truck is doing better overall but I need to see some progress before I do that. I don't suppose anyone rents that kit out on here do they? That's pretty common on the bmw boards for special tools, they charge a deposit that is the price of the tool plus the rental and you get refunded when the tool goes home.
Changed the plugs tonight, as a job not terrible, for spark plugs was pretty silly. The plugs were all autolite so they had been changed, and three cops were aftermarket. I had two new ones so I reused one of the aftermarket ones. The passenger rear plug was backed out several threads, probably wasn't torqued correctly when it was replaced. There was a lot of gloppy build up on the boot and in the hole. I managed to take a picture down the hole and the seat didn't look too bad amazingly so I dropped a new plug in carefully and torqued it down. No broken plugs, I soaked them 30 mins or so and went around several times to tighten/loosen them until I could tell they would come out. They did have anti-seize on the old plugs so that was good. Thankfully no drama with a heli-coil coming out and I couldn't even tell what cylinder it was in.
Shes running a lot better and the tick is greatly reduced but now the valve train is more audible and I'm sure still needs service. Thinking about just changing the other cops but I guess on the other hand on a v8 one cop going out might not strand you? here's a pic of the carnage.
10-27-2016, 07:23 PM
