The Final Repair Guide to 5.4 Cam Phaser Tick/Knock Sound
04-18-2015, 08:28 PM
#1991
Junior Member
Weird formatting for links in this forum, displaying as images. Whatever.
Anyway, I thought of one more thing. I considered replacing the oil pump while I was already that far into it, as it's really not an expensive part. I was also swayed by Jasper's propaganda video regarding their "upgraded" M360 pump that they use.
I started to think about this, though, and I decided it may end up being pointless at best. The two upgrade pumps seem to be the Melling M360 and Melling 10340, both higher pressure pumps than stock. Jasper points out that the M360 builds higher pressure because its cast iron back plate doesn't leak at high RPM like the stock pump. Shaft leakage looked the same at idle, though.
So let's think about this: You don't gain anything at idle, but you gain several psi at higher RPM. I'd think you'd want the opposite, helping the cylinder head oil pressure at idle, but not blowing out the CCT gaskets at higher RPM.
I stuck with the stock pump due to concerns over blowing out the CCT gaskets again due to higher oil pressure, but I'm open to a counterargument to this.
Anyway, I thought of one more thing. I considered replacing the oil pump while I was already that far into it, as it's really not an expensive part. I was also swayed by Jasper's propaganda video regarding their "upgraded" M360 pump that they use.
I started to think about this, though, and I decided it may end up being pointless at best. The two upgrade pumps seem to be the Melling M360 and Melling 10340, both higher pressure pumps than stock. Jasper points out that the M360 builds higher pressure because its cast iron back plate doesn't leak at high RPM like the stock pump. Shaft leakage looked the same at idle, though.
So let's think about this: You don't gain anything at idle, but you gain several psi at higher RPM. I'd think you'd want the opposite, helping the cylinder head oil pressure at idle, but not blowing out the CCT gaskets at higher RPM.
I stuck with the stock pump due to concerns over blowing out the CCT gaskets again due to higher oil pressure, but I'm open to a counterargument to this.
04-19-2015, 04:12 AM
#1992
You have written out a very detailed and thorough experience. I have done this job twice including oil pump and lash adjusters. The only part I disagree with is the difficulty with the removal of the passenger valve cover without evacuating the ac system. Mabe my 04 is different. Had no problems loosening line brackets and pulling to get that extra inch of clearance. I agree with your assessment of the oil pump. I bought my truck New in 04 and at 220k I do a hail Mary every time I turn the key
04-19-2015, 10:13 AM
#1993
Junior Member
Looking over all of my receipts, it looks like I spent pretty much exactly $2000 on parts (which includes accidentally buying an extra VCT housing gasket and buying over $100 worth of cam bridge bolts after being misled into believing they weren't reusable). That also included all eight spark plugs, 20 quarts of Motorcraft 5W-20, two Motorcraft filters, and three gallons of Motorcraft coolant (turns out one gallon would have been enough). I think had I been more patient with cheaper shipping, buying fewer parts local, and not buying any excess parts/fluids, I could have brought this down to about $1700 to completely replace everything under all three covers--and that's OEM parts. Not too shabby.
I spent about $160 in tools for the job: A T27 long torx driver for the VCT solenoids, the Harbor Freight 3-jaw puller kit, the phaser locking tool and wedge, and the spark plug removal tool.
That last tool worked quite well, by the way, pulling all eight plugs out without breaking a single one. , but I recommend it.
04-24-2015, 11:54 AM
#1994
Senior Member
I just did my phazers and timing chain set along with all the associated gaskets and one thing I think should be noted is that once you align the timing marks and roll the engine over by hand 2 complete revolutions the timing marks will no longer line up, also when pressing in the crank seal put a chunk of wood or steel directly below the seal or you will crack the timing cover. The truck is super quiet now which makes me so happy.
05-03-2015, 09:09 PM
#1995
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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3 year follow up to cam phaser lockout installation
I just wanted to follow up after installing cam phaser lockouts in 2012. When I last posted (08/2012), I was having trouble timing the truck after the install. I solved the problem once I realized that the cams could be turned to set the timing marks, as long as the crank stayed in place (with the timing mark at 6 o'clock). (Additionally, it's 30 links from the crank timing mark to the cam phaser timing mark any way you count it, not counting the link the crank timing mark is on.)
Once it was timed, it ran like a dream for over 2 years - seriously the quietest 5.4 I've ever heard. Then, randomly it started making a bunch of noise, which I realized was a broken guide.
When I took the timing cover off, I noticed that the passenger side stationary guide was obliterated, the driver side guide was broken, both tensioners were shot, and the passenger side chain had jumped a tooth on the cam phaser. I was shocked at the amount of carnage, and that I hadn't had any more problems.
After dropping the oil pan and cleaning out the plastic fragments from the oil pickup, I took advice from another forum and replaced the plastic tensioners with the iron ones from the 2V 5.4 (99 f150) - it's a direct swap. I replaced the guides & tensioners, re-timed the engine, and put it all back together. It's been as smooth as silk ever since. SUPER QUIET!
To date, I have 60,000 miles on the livernois lockouts and aside from the tensioners, I haven't had any problems. The lockouts have been the best upgrade for this truck, hands down.
By the way, the iron tensioners are Cloyes part numbers: 9-5338 & 9-5339
Once it was timed, it ran like a dream for over 2 years - seriously the quietest 5.4 I've ever heard. Then, randomly it started making a bunch of noise, which I realized was a broken guide.
When I took the timing cover off, I noticed that the passenger side stationary guide was obliterated, the driver side guide was broken, both tensioners were shot, and the passenger side chain had jumped a tooth on the cam phaser. I was shocked at the amount of carnage, and that I hadn't had any more problems.
After dropping the oil pan and cleaning out the plastic fragments from the oil pickup, I took advice from another forum and replaced the plastic tensioners with the iron ones from the 2V 5.4 (99 f150) - it's a direct swap. I replaced the guides & tensioners, re-timed the engine, and put it all back together. It's been as smooth as silk ever since. SUPER QUIET!
To date, I have 60,000 miles on the livernois lockouts and aside from the tensioners, I haven't had any problems. The lockouts have been the best upgrade for this truck, hands down.
By the way, the iron tensioners are Cloyes part numbers: 9-5338 & 9-5339
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wrvond (06-27-2015)
05-04-2015, 02:23 AM
#1996
I just wanted to follow up after installing cam phaser lockouts in 2012. When I last posted (08/2012), I was having trouble timing the truck after the install. I solved the problem once I realized that the cams could be turned to set the timing marks, as long as the crank stayed in place (with the timing mark at 6 o'clock). (Additionally, it's 30 links from the crank timing mark to the cam phaser timing mark any way you count it, not counting the link the crank timing mark is on.)
Once it was timed, it ran like a dream for over 2 years - seriously the quietest 5.4 I've ever heard. Then, randomly it started making a bunch of noise, which I realized was a broken guide.
When I took the timing cover off, I noticed that the passenger side stationary guide was obliterated, the driver side guide was broken, both tensioners were shot, and the passenger side chain had jumped a tooth on the cam phaser. I was shocked at the amount of carnage, and that I hadn't had any more problems.
After dropping the oil pan and cleaning out the plastic fragments from the oil pickup, I took advice from another forum and replaced the plastic tensioners with the iron ones from the 2V 5.4 (99 f150) - it's a direct swap. I replaced the guides & tensioners, re-timed the engine, and put it all back together. It's been as smooth as silk ever since. SUPER QUIET!
To date, I have 60,000 miles on the livernois lockouts and aside from the tensioners, I haven't had any problems. The lockouts have been the best upgrade for this truck, hands down.
By the way, the iron tensioners are Cloyes part numbers: 9-5338 & 9-5339
Once it was timed, it ran like a dream for over 2 years - seriously the quietest 5.4 I've ever heard. Then, randomly it started making a bunch of noise, which I realized was a broken guide.
When I took the timing cover off, I noticed that the passenger side stationary guide was obliterated, the driver side guide was broken, both tensioners were shot, and the passenger side chain had jumped a tooth on the cam phaser. I was shocked at the amount of carnage, and that I hadn't had any more problems.
After dropping the oil pan and cleaning out the plastic fragments from the oil pickup, I took advice from another forum and replaced the plastic tensioners with the iron ones from the 2V 5.4 (99 f150) - it's a direct swap. I replaced the guides & tensioners, re-timed the engine, and put it all back together. It's been as smooth as silk ever since. SUPER QUIET!
To date, I have 60,000 miles on the livernois lockouts and aside from the tensioners, I haven't had any problems. The lockouts have been the best upgrade for this truck, hands down.
By the way, the iron tensioners are Cloyes part numbers: 9-5338 & 9-5339
05-04-2015, 01:23 PM
#1997
After I swapped my tensioners out I then noticed the older engines had the metal tensioners.
I seen some parts companys are listing the passenger side with metal & the driver side with plastic.
(I missed the opportunity to make those as a possible option)
(Guess ford seen where they could cut costs by using plastic).
I seen some parts companys are listing the passenger side with metal & the driver side with plastic.
(I missed the opportunity to make those as a possible option)
(Guess ford seen where they could cut costs by using plastic).
05-04-2015, 02:27 PM
#1998
Junior Member
I, too, saw the metal-bodied tensioners, but I took a pass. Only reason being I couldn't find a single picture or fiche or anything online that showed any kind of gasket or o-ring for the metal ones. It appears to me that the metal tensioner bodies seal via finely machined mounting surfaces.
My logic was that a new engine designed with gaskets in mind might not have the surface accuracy to seal up the metal tensioners, and I didn't want to risk it. Maybe the metal ones do come with gaskets, or maybe the surfaces are good enough to seal without one, I don't know, but I didn't risk it with the imperfect information I had.
To me, it wasn't even metal vs. plastic that made me seriously consider the older tensioners, but rather the ratchet system that would prevent them from collapsing in the event of loss of oil pressure.
Anybody who's bought these older metal tensioners, please let me know if they came with a gasket or seal metal to metal. Also, it looks like the oil passages in the old tensioners are smaller/different than the, essentially, open interior of the new plastic ones. Do the old tensioners interface properly with the new blocks in terms of oil passages aligning?
My logic was that a new engine designed with gaskets in mind might not have the surface accuracy to seal up the metal tensioners, and I didn't want to risk it. Maybe the metal ones do come with gaskets, or maybe the surfaces are good enough to seal without one, I don't know, but I didn't risk it with the imperfect information I had.
To me, it wasn't even metal vs. plastic that made me seriously consider the older tensioners, but rather the ratchet system that would prevent them from collapsing in the event of loss of oil pressure.
Anybody who's bought these older metal tensioners, please let me know if they came with a gasket or seal metal to metal. Also, it looks like the oil passages in the old tensioners are smaller/different than the, essentially, open interior of the new plastic ones. Do the old tensioners interface properly with the new blocks in terms of oil passages aligning?
05-06-2015, 06:44 AM
#1999
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Sure enjoyed my drive from Vancouver to Los Angelas averaging 17.2 MPG at 80-85 MPH. Doubt I would have got that with lock-outs, and I was holding steady at 3000 - 4000 rpm up mountain passes just ripping by the slow pokes. Truck is quieter and gets better mileage than my buddies ticking ecoboost.
Nice to hear that some 5.4s run well with stock equipment!
Mine was on it's third set of phasers, tensioners, guides when I decided to try the lockouts as a last effort. I just had a hard time believing an f150 that sounded like a 7.3 powerstroke was "normal" engine noise.
Truthfully, I've never monitored my fuel economy. I bought a four wheel drive, V8, full sized truck for its power and size. I would have opted for something lighter and smaller if I was overly concerned with mpg's. Mine is lifted with 35's and over 300 pounds of replacement bumpers front and rear. It's a deer slayer and a traffic mover, not a hybrid.
However, I do expect it to run well. Therefore, if a 5.4 runs like a diesel, and you've exhausted your options (but still love your truck) then a livernois cam phaser lockout kit may work for you - it has for me for 60,000 miles!
05-06-2015, 07:02 AM
#2000
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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I, too, saw the metal-bodied tensioners, but I took a pass. Only reason being I couldn't find a single picture or fiche or anything online that showed any kind of gasket or o-ring for the metal ones. It appears to me that the metal tensioner bodies seal via finely machined mounting surfaces.
My logic was that a new engine designed with gaskets in mind might not have the surface accuracy to seal up the metal tensioners, and I didn't want to risk it. Maybe the metal ones do come with gaskets, or maybe the surfaces are good enough to seal without one, I don't know, but I didn't risk it with the imperfect information I had.
To me, it wasn't even metal vs. plastic that made me seriously consider the older tensioners, but rather the ratchet system that would prevent them from collapsing in the event of loss of oil pressure.
Anybody who's bought these older metal tensioners, please let me know if they came with a gasket or seal metal to metal. Also, it looks like the oil passages in the old tensioners are smaller/different than the, essentially, open interior of the new plastic ones. Do the old tensioners interface properly with the new blocks in terms of oil passages aligning?
My logic was that a new engine designed with gaskets in mind might not have the surface accuracy to seal up the metal tensioners, and I didn't want to risk it. Maybe the metal ones do come with gaskets, or maybe the surfaces are good enough to seal without one, I don't know, but I didn't risk it with the imperfect information I had.
To me, it wasn't even metal vs. plastic that made me seriously consider the older tensioners, but rather the ratchet system that would prevent them from collapsing in the event of loss of oil pressure.
Anybody who's bought these older metal tensioners, please let me know if they came with a gasket or seal metal to metal. Also, it looks like the oil passages in the old tensioners are smaller/different than the, essentially, open interior of the new plastic ones. Do the old tensioners interface properly with the new blocks in terms of oil passages aligning?
The iron ones do not come with a gasket. I looked around to see if there were any available, but couldn't find any. I believe they are designed to seal metal to metal. I was not completely sold on that, so I used a thin layer of RTV black (just like you use when putting the timing cover on). I've got about 12,000 miles on the iron ones and haven't noticed any problems with them.
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