2002VertGt

ford is a 100$ diag fee to stop chasing your tail....but cam sensors could have been bad out of the box. Journals could be clogged. Vct could be clogged.

2002VertGt

did your heads get removed during the process? When changing the phasers did the camshaft roll on you to a different position?

Mh104084

It moved slightly but was able to move it right back and careful during the process

fatedstranger

I am preparing to replace the timing components in my 2008 due to bad tensioner(s), the information in this thread has been invaluable, thank you to everyone that has contributed.

It seems like a lot of our issues stem from bad tensioner design. I’ve seen the question asked before but didn’t see an answer, has Ford updated the design for the tensioners and has that resolved the issue? I did see that a different gasket/seal is now being used but no reference to part numbers or when the updated design was introduced. Does anyone have any details?

There seem to be three components with potentially updated design / revised part numbers, the tensioners, phasers and VCT solenoids. Here are the most recent part numbers that I could find, if anyone is able to verify that these are the most up-to-date designs it would be appreciated:

Phaser: 3R2Z-6256-EA (3R2Z-6A257-DA phaser and bolt)
LH timing chain tensioner: XL1Z-6L266-AA
RH timing chain tensioner: 1L3Z-6L266-AA
VCT solenoid: 8L3Z-6M280-B

Has anyone looked at the Modular Motorsports Racing (MMR) Billet Steel Primary Tensioners? They are a bit pricey but if the OEM tensioners are still failing maybe they are worth it. Here is a the verbiage from the MMR website:

MMR Billet Steel Primary Tensioners for all 2V, 3V and 4V

The perfect primary tensioner is here, the MMR Billet Steel primary tensioners are a Hydraulic tensioner just like factory but instead of having a weak ratchet system MMR went one step further and added a positive locking/adjusting mechanism allowing the maximum compression to be limited but still take full advantage of the factory hydraulics!!

I am currently in the process of tracking down the best prices for the parts I am going to need. I live in Canada and the dealer prices are high compared to the US. A 4x4 actuator up here retails for $285 CAD (~$225 USD) actual price is about $223 CAD (~$180 USD). The same part from Tasca is only $113 USD so even with the exchange rate and shipping it actually cost me quite a bit less to get it from Tasca.

I haven’t checked the dealer for prices yet, but I expect the costs to be between $1500-2000 CAD for the timing components...ouch!

Any of my Canadian brethren have a good source for parts?

I know about the OEM Select Parts kits on Amazon and eBay. The kit is currently listed at $810 on Amazon:

and $709 on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271340466627

Is this the best bang for the buck?

The kit includes the following parts:

2 x camshaft phaser sprocket assembly (including bolts): 3R2Z-6A257-DA
2 x timing chains: 5L3Z-6268-A
1 x LH timing chain tensioner: XL1Z-6L266-AA
1 x LH timing chain tensioner arm: F85Z-6M274-AA
1 x LH timing chain guide: 2L1Z-6K297-AA
1 x RH timing chain tensioner: 1L3Z-6L266-AA
1 x RH timing chain tensioner arm: F85Z-6K255-AA
1 x RH timing chain guide: 4L3Z-6M256-AA
1 x crankshaft timing drive gear sprocket: XL3Z-6306-AA
1 x crankshaft seal: XW4Z-6700-AA
1 x LH timing cover gasket: 3L3Z 6020-DA
1 x RH timing cover gasket: 3L3Z 6020-FA
1 x centre timing cover gasket: 3L3Z-6020-EA

I can get the above parts at Tasca for $798.41 USD. I have a few other things I need to get so with combined shipping it may end up being more cost effective to get everything from Tasca. Is there a forum discount for Tasca?

As part of this job I also plan to get the following parts:

2 x VCT solenoid: 8L3Z-6M280-B
2 x VCT solenoid seal: 7L1Z-6C535-AA
1 x LH valve cover gasket: 7L1Z-6584-B
1 x RH valve cover gasket: 7L1Z-6584-A

Am I missing anything?

I’d prefer to use all OEM parts but definitely want to go OEM for the the phaser and the VCT solenoids, probably for the tensioners too. I’m apprehensive to go with aftermarket but am considering it due to the price of OEM. [MENTION=86588]s_vares[/MENTION] originally recommended the Cloves timing set and the Fel-Pro gaskets have been recommended several times but others have also suggested it’s safer to stick with OEM parts. Any strong opinions?

If anyone, especially those living in the great white north, has found a cost effective way to get all the parts I’d really appreciate some pointers!

Cheers!

P.S. Sorry for the long post, thanks to those that took the time to read it!

Stinger381

I went through All of this as well. Changed out my chains, tensioners, phasers, vct's, etc.. Only to have rough idle once warm. I checked the oil pan and I had plastic guide pieces in my oil pickup tube. For me it was too late and damage had occurred. What happens is the oil is starved to the cam shafts and wear occurs. Because of the wear there is less oil pressure. Without oil pressure at a minimum of 25psi at idle the phasers can't move back (retard) to the idle position and the truck skips. When you accelerate from idle the oil pressure builds back up and everything works correctly.

Check for accurate oil,pressure at warm idle first. If it is below 25 psi then you have your answer. Ford will tell you to replace the motor. What I did was change out to Delo 15w-40 oil and the slightly thicker oil boosted my oil pressure to 28 at idle and solved my skip. It didn't fix my problem but it was a simple work around.

Micahdogg

For guys with rough idle, it would be worthwhile to double check your vacuum lines, your air intake connections, air filter, TB, and IAB. It would suck to do timing chains and cam phasers, etc... if it was an unrelated issue all along.

fatedstranger

I have been looking closely at the part numbers and found a way to decode them:

Example part number: 3R2Z-6A257-DA

First Digit: Year/Decade Code
Second and Third Digits: Product Line Code
Fourth Digit: Engineering department responsible for original parts design
Fifth to Ninth Digit: Basic part number group
Suffix: Design Level

Year/Decade Codes:
A = 2010
B = 2011
C = 2012
D = 2013
E = 2014
F = 2015
G = 2016
H = 2017
I = Not Used
J = 2018
K = 2019
L = 2020
M = 2021
N = 2022
O = Not Used
P = 2023
Q = Not Used
R = 2024
S = 1995
T = 1996
U = Not Used
V = 1997
W = 1998
X = 1999
Y = 2000
Z = Not Used
0 = Not Used
1 = 2001
2 = 2002
3 = 2003
4 = 2004
5 = 3005
6 = 2006
7 = 2007
8 = 2008
9 = 2009


Product Line Codes:
A1 = MKX
A2 = EXPLORER
A5 = MKS
A6 = FIESTA
A8 = FLEX
B5 = EXPLORER(2011)
C1 = TRANSIT
C2 = ECONOLINE
C3 = F250HD/350/450/550
C4 = F650/750/L-SERIES/CARGO CF
C5 = AVIATOR
C6 = BLACKWOOD
C7 = EXCURSION
E6 = MARINER
E9 = MKT
F1 = TAURUS (FROM 99 THRU 2006)
F2 = FREESTAR/MONTEREY/WINDSTAR
F3 = CONTINENTIAL
F4 = SABLE (FROM 99 THRU 2006)
F5 = VILLAGER
F6 = THUNDERBIRD
F7 = EN158
F8 = FW178
F9 = FREESTYLE / TAURUS X
G1 = FIVE HUNDRED (REPLACED BY TAURUS 2008)
G7 = FORD GT
H6 = ZEPHYR (REPLACED BY MKZ IN 2007)
J5 = ESCAPE (2013)
L1 = BRONCO/EXPEDITION
L2 = EXPLORER(UP TO 2010)
L3 = F150/F250/MARK LT/RAPTOR
L4 = MAVERICK 4X4
L5 = RANGER
L6 = AEROSTAR
L7 = NAVIGATOR
L8 = ESCAPE
L9 = MOUNTAINEER
M1 = TRACER
M6 = ESCAPE/MARINER (HYBRID MODELS)
N7 = MILAN
P9 = FOCUS (2012)
R1 = ASTON-MARTIN
R2 = FALCON
R3 = MUSTANG
R4 = SCORPIO
R5 = FAIRLANE
R6 = LTD
R8 = Jaguar S-Type
R9 = MARK VIII
S1 = ASPIRE
S2 = CONTOUR
S4 = ESCORT/FOCUS (up to 2011 on Focus)
S5 = KA
S6 = FIESTA
S7 = MONDEO
S8 = PROBE
S9 = MYSTIQUE
T1 = TRANSIT
T4 = EDGE
T5 = MONTEGO (SABLE REPLACED MONTEGO 2008)
U1 = POWER PRODUCTS
U2 = MOTORCRAFT BRAND
U3 = OUTSIDE SALES
U9 = F53 CHASSIS /MOTORHOME/PARCEL TRUCKS
V1 = FUSION
W1 = TOWNCAR
W2 = COUGAR
W3 = GRAND MARQUIS
W4 = LINCOLN LS/DEW98
W5 = EW171
W6 = THUNDERBIRD
W7 = CROWN VICTORIA/EN114
W8 = JAGUAR XK8/XKR
W9 = JAGUAR XJ-SERIES


Engineering Department Codes:
A = Advanced Vehicle Technologies Core Operations
B = Not Assigned
C = Chassis Operations
D = Overseas Product Engineering
E = Engine Engineering, Engine Product and Manufacturing Engineering
F = Electronics Engineering Operations
G = Not Assigned
H = Climate Control Operations
I = Not Used
J = Ford Customer Service Division Parts and Accessories Engineering
K = Import Release Section
L = Ford Customer Service Division Power Products Engineering
M = Special Vehicle Operations
N = Not Assigned
O = Not Used
P = Transmission and Axle Product and Manufacturing Engineering (Automatic Transmission)
Q = Not Used
R = Transmission and Axle Product and Manufacturing Engineering (Manual Transmission)
S = Light and Heavy Truck Engineering/Truck Special Order Department
T = Not Assigned
U = Electrical and Fuel Handling Division
V = Domestic Special Order Engineering Section
W = Transmission and Axle Product and Manufacturing Engineering (Axle and Drveline)
X = Plastic and Trim Products Operations
Y = Not Assigned
Z = Ford Customer Service Division Product Analysis
0 = Not Used
1 = Vehicle Center 1
2 = Vehicle Center 2
3 = Vehicle Center 3
4 = Vehicle Center 4
5 = Vehicle Center 5
6 = Vehicle Center 6
7 = Not Assigned
8 = Electric Vehicle Engineering
9 = Not Assigned


Part Number Groups:
1000 - 1250 = WHEELS/HUBS/DRUMS
2001 - 2900 = BRAKES
3000 - 3764 = FRONT SUSPENSION / STEERING
4000 - 4296 = REAR AXLE
4600 - 4859 = DRIVESHAFT
5000 - 5176 = FRAME
5200 - 5299 = EXHAUST
5300 - 5499 = FRONT SUSPENSION /STABILIZER
5550 - 5832 = REAR SPRINGS
6000 - 6898 = ENGINE BASE ASSEMBLY
6905 - 7997 = TRANSMISSION AND DRIVETRAIN / CLUTCH RELATED
8000 - 8499 = RADIATOR /GRILLE
8500 - 8689 = WATER PUMP AND FAN
9000 - 9296 = FUEL TANK /SUPERCHARGER
9301 - 9420 = FUEL PUMPS
9421 - 9499 = MANIFOLDS /CLAMPS/INTAKE AND EXHAUST
9500 - 9599 = CARBURETORS/SUPERCHARGERS
9600 - 9699 = AIR CLEANER
9700 - 9999 = ACCELERATOR/CHOKE &LINKAGE
10500 - 10576 = BATTERY/VOLTAGE REGULATOR
11000 - 11382 = STARTER
11450 - 11688 = LIGHTING/IGNITION SWITCH
12000 - 12425 = IGNITION COIL/SPARK PLUGS/DISTRIBUTOR/CONDENSER
13002 – 14689 = LAMPS/HORNS/WIRING
15000 – 15858 = MISCELLANEOUS ACCESSORIES
16000 – 16999 = FENDERS/HOOD
17248 – 17383 = SPEEDOMETER/TACH
17402 – 17666 = WINDSHIELD WIPERS/WASHER
17700 – 17999 = MIRRORS AND BUMPERS
18000 – 18125 = SHOCK ABSORBERS
18148 – 18249 = COMFORT AND CONVENIENCE ACCESSORIES
18250 – 18699 = HEATER
18800 – 18900 = RADIO/SPEAKERS
19500 – 19585 = CUSTOM ACCESSORIES
19600 – 19898 = AIR CONDITIONING

Design Level:
A suffix of A applies to a part produced as it was originally designed, B indicates it was changed once, C indicates it was changed twice and right through the alphabet in sequence, excluding the letter I. When the alphabet as been gone through once, the suffix grows to two letters and starts over as AA, AB, AC and so on.


Using the information above I took a look at the part numbers for the phasers, tensioners and VCT solenoids:

From the part number we can tell that there have been at least three versions of the VCT solenoid since there was a new part introduced in 2008 which is on it’s second revision. I was able to find two other part numbers which would support that theory, 3L3Z-6M280-EA and 8L3Z-6M280-A. There may have been more versions but there are at least three. 8L3Z-6M280-B seems to be the most recent version.

101 versions! Holy smokes! I’m guessing that the revisions must be engineering revisions, not actual part versions available to the public. There is no way to tell from the part number alone if the phasers have been updated for our generation trucks.

I stumbled across an OSI (Obsolete,Supersede,Interchange) Manual on the FordPartsWiki website. Here are some snippets from the general information section of the manual:

This O.S.I.Catalog has been developed to provide Ford and Lincoln-Mercury Dealers with information pertaining to Ford and Lincoln-Mercury Parts and Accessories no longer supplied and which parts can be categorized as OBSOLETE, SUPERSEDE or INTERCHANGE.

KEY TO DISPOSITION CODES
MW - Mix With
NR - Not Replaced
RB - Replaced By
SA - Serviced in Assembly
SD - Serviced in Details Only
SK - Serviced in Kit

A pound sign (#) following a part number in the “Disposition” column signifies that another part number has subsequently replaced the part.


I was able to find listings for the phaser in the manual:

It appears that there may be four or possibly five versions of the phaser. The effective date for the manual is July 2005 (which is the most recent version I could find). The most recent revision in the manual is 3R2Z-6A257-DA which is also the current part number as far as I can tell. It's disappointing to learn that there have been no updates to the design since 2005

My biggest concern is the tensioners. It looks like they have gone through several design revisions, but I can’t find anything to indicate when these revisions were made. It seems as if the part number is the same since the 3V was introduced in 2004! There is nothing in the OSI manual so if it has been updated it would have probably occurred after 2005. Are there any users that work in a Ford service department that could maybe shed some light on this? I haven’t seen any responses from [MENTION=47652]FordService[/MENTION] in this thread but if you’re lurking perhaps you could chime in?

jspec

Did anyone replace their oil pump? Jasper is seems to be blaming the oil pump for low oil pressure.

Michael Johanson

Everyone I talked to claimed I had cam phaser noise. Learned a lot here, but no one mentioned anything about starting cold and having the dieseling noise.
I found a great article that explains why, and is exactly the symptoms I have.
Also goes onto explain how its misdiagnosed as cam phasers most of the time.
I have not got to tear mine down, but I do have the Code p0300 rich and lean essentially, and running like crap and sounding like a diesel from the get go, so am 99 percent positive that I have a broken guide on one side.
I had already ordered timing kit, along with oil pump, water pump, vcl solenoids, plugs, and a new intake for good measure. I am a firm believer that if I am there, I am doing it all. I'll buy lash adjusters and followers if needed upon pulling valve covers.


My bill for parts ordered total 712.03 so far.




Mike
http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/115

xpander343

Back in the summer I picked up an 07 f150 with the hot idle rough running fairly cheap. I was figuring it probably needed tensioners and guides. I'd pulled both valve covers to check to see if the cam phasers looked messed up and to take the solenoids out to clean. I also pulled a cam cap and found I had some large nasty grooves in both the cam and in the cam cap. I ran 15w40 for 3 months or so after this and generally it was pretty good. I then ended up picking up a used engine as it seemed like I'd be into the similar costs by the time I bought cams, heads plus timing sets. So something to consider before you end up spending a fortune on timing sets and still have it run crappy. When I pulled my oil pan on my old motor the pickup was fairly plugged with sludge as well, and one of the tensioners was blown out as well. Before I owned my truck it was a fleet truck for a highway maintence company so it had a ton of idling hours on it and had quite a bit of sludge in the engine.