Cold Air Intake for a 5.4L
01-29-2012, 05:20 PM
#21
KRANCHO07
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Central Mississippi
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I'm going to order custom tunes for my edge cs from PHP but I haven't done so yet. I have a AFE Stage 2 SI... do you think it would be ok for me to go ahead and install the CAI kit before I get my custom tunes in? I already have the edge cs on the truck and I'm running it on level 2. If I go ahead and install the CAI kit do you think I would have any issues or should I just wait on the custom tunes?
01-29-2012, 06:45 PM
#22
Senior Member
I'm going to order custom tunes for my edge cs from PHP but I haven't done so yet. I have a AFE Stage 2 SI... do you think it would be ok for me to go ahead and install the CAI kit before I get my custom tunes in? I already have the edge cs on the truck and I'm running it on level 2. If I go ahead and install the CAI kit do you think I would have any issues or should I just wait on the custom tunes?
http://www.troyerperformance.com/cgi...alogno=2004CAI
01-30-2012, 12:43 AM
#23
I'm talking about other people not knowing what they're talking about; as was inferred towards me and a couple others earlier in this thread, so I'll elaborate:
More than half of the CAI kits sold for our trucks are not true Cold Air Intakes. The filter itself still sits in the engine bay; regardless of the fact that it has little 'walls' around it to supposedly keep out the hot air around the engine.
A TRUE CAI will have the filter located OUTSIDE of the engine compartment, normally as low to the ground as possible.
And an aftermarket CAI is supposed to serve two purposes:
1. Be larger. Having the the filter flow more air more easily and have the connecting 'tube' to the TB be physically larger than stock. This allows for more airflow, which equals more HP.
2. Get COLDER air than the stock setup. When an air molecule is cold, it is smaller....meaning more of them can fit in the same space compared to when they are warmer. As I said above; a 'true' CAI will have the filter element located outside of the engine compartment and low to the ground to accomplish this task the best it can.
ANY CAI is capable of around 5hp in gains. 20 is really asking something. And even to gain that 5hp you will need to get a different tune. Same with an aftermarket exhaust. Do you think your engine magically finds more HP when you add something like that? No. Your engine is making the SAME HP until you change the tune on it, allowing it to use the exhaust or CAI correctly, to the best of it's abilities.
I've kept my mouth shut on here for a while with regards to CAI's, but I don't care anymore.
If you install one and you enjoy the sound and your butt-dyno feels that your truck is faster, more power to you. But unless you are getting a CUSTOM tune, it's just not true. And by custom I mean taking YOUR truck with the aftermarket parts installed to a dyno and tuning it. It's the only way.
Even with a map from a company that has built that map using the same year/make/model as yours with the exact same after market parts installed, that 'canned' tune will not be as good as doing it yourself (taking your truck to a dyno).
So no...........you're not going to slap on a CAI that sits in your engine compartment and gain 20 horses. It's absurd.
And if you believe that you will gain 20 horses like that; I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you..........
Take this vid for example:
Someone explain to me the difference with the stock setup VS the aftermarket one? Same size and length. Now the filter box is open instead of being closed. Now the filter is pulling its air from the engine compartmet itself than from the little hole in the engine compartment the stock housing uses. It sounds better, sure. But is it a CAI? Nope........
It pisses me off that AEM knows the difference between a short ram system and a true CAI; but for our trucks they are calling a short ram a CAI. I'm assuming that to get a 'true' CAI on our trucks you would prolly have to cut a hole somewhere in the engine bay cause there just isn't an existing hole to get the inatke tube through. Their version of what you saw in the vid above is called a 'short ram intake'....NOT a cold air intake, cause it's just not.
Look familiar? It's a short ram intake, not a CAI.
No here's AEM's 'cold air intake' for our trucks.............looks the same to me:
A TRUE cold air intake should look something like this (fast forward to 4:45):
Can you see the difference? Do you see that the filter itself is NOT in the engine compartment? That it will ONLY get colder air?
More than half of the CAI kits sold for our trucks are not true Cold Air Intakes. The filter itself still sits in the engine bay; regardless of the fact that it has little 'walls' around it to supposedly keep out the hot air around the engine.
A TRUE CAI will have the filter located OUTSIDE of the engine compartment, normally as low to the ground as possible.
And an aftermarket CAI is supposed to serve two purposes:
1. Be larger. Having the the filter flow more air more easily and have the connecting 'tube' to the TB be physically larger than stock. This allows for more airflow, which equals more HP.
2. Get COLDER air than the stock setup. When an air molecule is cold, it is smaller....meaning more of them can fit in the same space compared to when they are warmer. As I said above; a 'true' CAI will have the filter element located outside of the engine compartment and low to the ground to accomplish this task the best it can.
ANY CAI is capable of around 5hp in gains. 20 is really asking something. And even to gain that 5hp you will need to get a different tune. Same with an aftermarket exhaust. Do you think your engine magically finds more HP when you add something like that? No. Your engine is making the SAME HP until you change the tune on it, allowing it to use the exhaust or CAI correctly, to the best of it's abilities.
I've kept my mouth shut on here for a while with regards to CAI's, but I don't care anymore.
If you install one and you enjoy the sound and your butt-dyno feels that your truck is faster, more power to you. But unless you are getting a CUSTOM tune, it's just not true. And by custom I mean taking YOUR truck with the aftermarket parts installed to a dyno and tuning it. It's the only way.
Even with a map from a company that has built that map using the same year/make/model as yours with the exact same after market parts installed, that 'canned' tune will not be as good as doing it yourself (taking your truck to a dyno).
So no...........you're not going to slap on a CAI that sits in your engine compartment and gain 20 horses. It's absurd.
And if you believe that you will gain 20 horses like that; I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you..........
Take this vid for example:
Someone explain to me the difference with the stock setup VS the aftermarket one? Same size and length. Now the filter box is open instead of being closed. Now the filter is pulling its air from the engine compartmet itself than from the little hole in the engine compartment the stock housing uses. It sounds better, sure. But is it a CAI? Nope........
It pisses me off that AEM knows the difference between a short ram system and a true CAI; but for our trucks they are calling a short ram a CAI. I'm assuming that to get a 'true' CAI on our trucks you would prolly have to cut a hole somewhere in the engine bay cause there just isn't an existing hole to get the inatke tube through. Their version of what you saw in the vid above is called a 'short ram intake'....NOT a cold air intake, cause it's just not.
Look familiar? It's a short ram intake, not a CAI.
No here's AEM's 'cold air intake' for our trucks.............looks the same to me:
A TRUE cold air intake should look something like this (fast forward to 4:45):
Can you see the difference? Do you see that the filter itself is NOT in the engine compartment? That it will ONLY get colder air?
Last edited by sargeek1975; 01-30-2012 at 01:05 AM.
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01-30-2012, 02:04 AM
#24
Storm Chaser /Navy Vet
Sorry bud...
I'm talking about other people not knowing what they're talking about; as was inferred towards me and a couple others earlier in this thread, so I'll elaborate:
More than half of the CAI kits sold for our trucks are not true Cold Air Intakes. The filter itself still sits in the engine bay; regardless of the fact that it has little 'walls' around it to supposedly keep out the hot air around the engine.
A TRUE CAI will have the filter located OUTSIDE of the engine compartment, normally as low to the ground as possible.
And an aftermarket CAI is supposed to serve two purposes:
1. Be larger. Having the the filter flow more air more easily and have the connecting 'tube' to the TB be physically larger than stock. This allows for more airflow, which equals more HP.
2. Get COLDER air than the stock setup. When an air molecule is cold, it is smaller....meaning more of them can fit in the same space compared to when they are warmer. As I said above; a 'true' CAI will have the filter element located outside of the engine compartment and low to the ground to accomplish this task the best it can.
ANY CAI is capable of around 5hp in gains. 20 is really asking something. And even to gain that 5hp you will need to get a different tune. Same with an aftermarket exhaust. Do you think your engine magically finds more HP when you add something like that? No. Your engine is making the SAME HP until you change the tune on it, allowing it to use the exhaust or CAI correctly, to the best of it's abilities.
I've kept my mouth shut on here for a while with regards to CAI's, but I don't care anymore.
If you install one and you enjoy the sound and your butt-dyno feels that your truck is faster, more power to you. But unless you are getting a CUSTOM tune, it's just not true. And by custom I mean taking YOUR truck with the aftermarket parts installed to a dyno and tuning it. It's the only way.
Even with a map from a company that has built that map using the same year/make/model as yours with the exact same after market parts installed, that 'canned' tune will not be as good as doing it yourself (taking your truck to a dyno).
So no...........you're not going to slap on a CAI that sits in your engine compartment and gain 20 horses. It's absurd.
And if you believe that you will gain 20 horses like that; I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you..........
Take this vid for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuhq5ec_ntg
Someone explain to me the difference with the stock setup VS the aftermarket one? Same size and length. Now the filter box is open instead of being closed. Now the filter is pulling its air from the engine compartmet itself than from the little hole in the engine compartment the stock housing uses. It sounds better, sure. But is it a CAI? Nope........
It pisses me off that AEM knows the difference between a short ram system and a true CAI; but for our trucks they are calling a short ram a CAI. I'm assuming that to get a 'true' CAI on our trucks you would prolly have to cut a hole somewhere in the engine bay cause there just isn't an existing hole to get the inatke tube through. Their version of what you saw in the vid above is called a 'short ram intake'....NOT a cold air intake, cause it's just not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jiiu...eature=related
Look familiar? It's a short ram intake, not a CAI.
No here's AEM's 'cold air intake' for our trucks.............looks the same to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2QvA4LLfmM
A TRUE cold air intake should look something like this (fast forward to 4:45):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epFGwfEielc
Can you see the difference? Do you see that the filter itself is NOT in the engine compartment? That it will ONLY get colder air?
More than half of the CAI kits sold for our trucks are not true Cold Air Intakes. The filter itself still sits in the engine bay; regardless of the fact that it has little 'walls' around it to supposedly keep out the hot air around the engine.
A TRUE CAI will have the filter located OUTSIDE of the engine compartment, normally as low to the ground as possible.
And an aftermarket CAI is supposed to serve two purposes:
1. Be larger. Having the the filter flow more air more easily and have the connecting 'tube' to the TB be physically larger than stock. This allows for more airflow, which equals more HP.
2. Get COLDER air than the stock setup. When an air molecule is cold, it is smaller....meaning more of them can fit in the same space compared to when they are warmer. As I said above; a 'true' CAI will have the filter element located outside of the engine compartment and low to the ground to accomplish this task the best it can.
ANY CAI is capable of around 5hp in gains. 20 is really asking something. And even to gain that 5hp you will need to get a different tune. Same with an aftermarket exhaust. Do you think your engine magically finds more HP when you add something like that? No. Your engine is making the SAME HP until you change the tune on it, allowing it to use the exhaust or CAI correctly, to the best of it's abilities.
I've kept my mouth shut on here for a while with regards to CAI's, but I don't care anymore.
If you install one and you enjoy the sound and your butt-dyno feels that your truck is faster, more power to you. But unless you are getting a CUSTOM tune, it's just not true. And by custom I mean taking YOUR truck with the aftermarket parts installed to a dyno and tuning it. It's the only way.
Even with a map from a company that has built that map using the same year/make/model as yours with the exact same after market parts installed, that 'canned' tune will not be as good as doing it yourself (taking your truck to a dyno).
So no...........you're not going to slap on a CAI that sits in your engine compartment and gain 20 horses. It's absurd.
And if you believe that you will gain 20 horses like that; I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you..........
Take this vid for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuhq5ec_ntg
Someone explain to me the difference with the stock setup VS the aftermarket one? Same size and length. Now the filter box is open instead of being closed. Now the filter is pulling its air from the engine compartmet itself than from the little hole in the engine compartment the stock housing uses. It sounds better, sure. But is it a CAI? Nope........
It pisses me off that AEM knows the difference between a short ram system and a true CAI; but for our trucks they are calling a short ram a CAI. I'm assuming that to get a 'true' CAI on our trucks you would prolly have to cut a hole somewhere in the engine bay cause there just isn't an existing hole to get the inatke tube through. Their version of what you saw in the vid above is called a 'short ram intake'....NOT a cold air intake, cause it's just not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jiiu...eature=related
Look familiar? It's a short ram intake, not a CAI.
No here's AEM's 'cold air intake' for our trucks.............looks the same to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2QvA4LLfmM
A TRUE cold air intake should look something like this (fast forward to 4:45):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epFGwfEielc
Can you see the difference? Do you see that the filter itself is NOT in the engine compartment? That it will ONLY get colder air?
01-30-2012, 02:36 AM
#26
I'm not offended...........I'm pissed off that these companies are reffering to them as cold air intake systems when they're just not.
If a company claims that their CAI has gained 20 horses.........it's not due JUST to the CAI. They have probably installed a TON of other after market parts and spent allot of time on the dyno with it to get those numbers. And if you were THEN to remove the cai and replace it with the stock air box you might only lose 2-3 horses........so the claim of gaining 20 with the cai is a flat out lie.
There should be a little teeny tiny paragraph somewhere that states just that.
Going off of a black and white piece of paper from the SAME company that both made and sold you the part is insane to me. Look up some independant tests and get the real story behind the part before you purchase it.
If a company claims that their CAI has gained 20 horses.........it's not due JUST to the CAI. They have probably installed a TON of other after market parts and spent allot of time on the dyno with it to get those numbers. And if you were THEN to remove the cai and replace it with the stock air box you might only lose 2-3 horses........so the claim of gaining 20 with the cai is a flat out lie.
There should be a little teeny tiny paragraph somewhere that states just that.
Going off of a black and white piece of paper from the SAME company that both made and sold you the part is insane to me. Look up some independant tests and get the real story behind the part before you purchase it.
01-30-2012, 04:37 AM
#27
On select engines there isn't much of an increase. While others respond much better. I never said the Gotts mod wasn't worth while. Probably the best bang for the buck on the trucks. Now if you want to call people liars go right ahead. But I have known and been friends with Mike Troyer for some time. He test everything before he puts any claim behind it. If he says it will give you x hp it will. If it doesn't he'll make it right. Secondly Roush doesn't put their name behind junk nor do they lie about results. A little pricey yes but you can take there word to the bank. And lastly seeing as how I am pushing 130% more power to my rear wheels than you I would say keep your hydrogen generator....you need it far worse than I 
Sad part is, you are getting too defensive / emotional about this. I'm not calling anyone a liar, nor am I saying something does not work. All I am saying is that just bolting on a new intake pipe and and expensive filter to a puerly stock engine w/ stock exhaust and no tuner to magically make 20 HP seems a little fishy. I have seen it too many times. Example: Is there a shiny pipe that bolts to the stock air cleaner housing, leaving the housing intact? If not, then you need to move the MAS (such as in the case of the '04 5.4L) and now it surely is not stock and all bets are off. This is one of the biggest secrets that folks that just believe a bunch of hype aren't told. Stock (my origional claim) is when nothing else is changed but the filter and shiny new pipe. Again, decent HP gains come about when a few things are changed in unison and tuned to one another to create a more efficient system, since after all, an engine is just a big air pump and engine mods all depend upon your priorities.
In this new age of all the auto manufacturers claiming big HP on thier equipment, I am always in amazment that if something so simple would give them another 20 HP for the cheap, they too would use it, if nothing else, for bragging rights.
I have used the K&N (and other derivitives of it) on engines before. I have a K&N on my Fuel Injected Harley with a tuner and Vance and Hines exhaust. Yes, they do flow more air and make more (a little, maybe a little less than 10%) HP when everything is all wrapped up together, but at the cost of potentially allowing more contaminates into the CC. It is mere physics that dictates that to flow more air, one needs a clean filter and less restriction (larger holes in the filter media) and / or more filter surface area (pleated filters) and a less restrictive exhaust. I have a nylon stocking wrapped around my K&N as a pre-filter. And then there is the case of newbies over oiling them, contaminating the MAS and causing a whole nother set of problems.
Also, I never stated I needed (nor wanted) 130% more real wheel HP to my 4x4 truck. Been that route long ago, breaking tons of parts, probably before most on this board were born, with my 426 Hemis in the 60's and 70's. And yes, I did that quite well and used CAI's also. Have seen the magical things that made free horsepower come and go like the seasons.
Also have a ton of 1st hand knowlege of this stuff by building "street racers" (and AA/Fuel engines) and learning what worked and what didn't long before computers were invented, especially on a '69 680 HP (dyno'd), wheel lifting, street driven Dodge Hemi I had. I am now saving all that fun stuff for my 508 CI BBC Mercruiser in my boat in this modern age. If I'm going to burn fuel up, might as well go big time.
Enjoy your big HP rig, as I am sure you spent a pretty sizable chunk of hard earned cash on it and are very proud of it, as I am of my Stock '04 F150 Lariat Scab 4x4 w/ 89k on it and in nearly prestine condition. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
PS: The truck tows the 25 1/2 foot boat just fine with the stock motor and Gotts Mod. That is just my priority.
Have fun and have a nice life.....
01-30-2012, 08:10 AM
#29
For anyone who STILL believes that I or anyone else in this thread stating the same things I am are off of our rockers.........you may want to read this:
http://www.supermotors.net/registry/16162/54602-2
It's a completely independent review of the power gains of a CAI, cat back exhaust and an Edge Evo programmer.
They did a base stock dyno run and got 247hp and 282tq at the rear wheels.
After installing the exhaust and CAI with the Edge on Level III (performance) they got 261hp and 285tq.
That's ONLY 14 more horses. And to give you a for instance; I gurantee that if I go dyno my truck on the stock ECU map and then dyno it with my Edge on level III that I too will see about a 10hp gain. WITHOUT the CAI or exhaust.
I also say that if they were to create their OWN map with that truck on the dyno they could prolly pull a few more horses out of it, as it would be better than the canned performance map from Edge.
You guys really need to get out of your fantasy world once in a while...........
http://www.supermotors.net/registry/16162/54602-2
It's a completely independent review of the power gains of a CAI, cat back exhaust and an Edge Evo programmer.
They did a base stock dyno run and got 247hp and 282tq at the rear wheels.
After installing the exhaust and CAI with the Edge on Level III (performance) they got 261hp and 285tq.
That's ONLY 14 more horses. And to give you a for instance; I gurantee that if I go dyno my truck on the stock ECU map and then dyno it with my Edge on level III that I too will see about a 10hp gain. WITHOUT the CAI or exhaust.
I also say that if they were to create their OWN map with that truck on the dyno they could prolly pull a few more horses out of it, as it would be better than the canned performance map from Edge.
You guys really need to get out of your fantasy world once in a while...........
Last edited by sargeek1975; 01-30-2012 at 08:12 AM.
