5.4L 3v IMRC woes. Seeking help.
01-17-2016, 09:07 PM
#21
Senior Member
Hey man, no offense taken here either - EVER. We're from the same school and I certainly haven't graduated just yet. We'll get along fine.
@Sommers22's suggestion is (at only $8.00) exceptionally worthwhile. You did mention a little oil burning and I suppose that could contaminate the runner butterflies and cause them to be sticky. However - I note that the PCV vacuum is drawn on the bank 2 side of the TB, and your code (P2006) says runner on bank 1 is stuck. ???? (Although I cant understand how the hell the PCM could figure that out - the linkage is solid common to both sides!!!) So the code P2006 wouldn't be conclusive against trying it.
But I did want to re-iterate that it was almost IMPOSSIBLE for me to get my IMRC to do ANYTHING sitting still. I had to duct tape the bore scope in place with display inside passenger window and go for a drive. When the truck was moving - a mild load above certain rpms would cause the IMRC to 'slam' wide "OPEN". I could rev 3 - 4000 or even 4500 sitting still and get nothing. This is why I requested your observations. It's operation seemed totally KOOKY to me. I could never get it to open by loading the engine in drive /or 2nd gear/ with foot on the brake. It was as though the PCM required some mph in conjunction with rpms. (I would like to see you verify this before removing the intake manifold - which is a PITA.) I think I could see in the video your valve "tried" to move. Perhaps your IMRC valve is not DOA, and the runners are just a little carboned up and stuck like the code says. @Sommers22's suggestion could work.
If you have to remove the IM, the Break Booster vacuum line that connects to the bottom rear of the IM was impossible for me to reconnect. I had to install the IM with a new piece of vacuum hose already connected to that nipple and kill the original brake booster line!!!!
ALSO. Your description of the intake runners is more in line with a different version than those employed on our trucks. Here is a picture of a 5.4L triton intake runners and manifold. The single, moveable butterfly in the intake port has a slit (perhaps 15% of its surface area) right behind the injector holes (on bank 2), in front of on bank 1. The actuator shaft runs the full length of the runners and is connected to the IMRC at the rear.
@Sommers22's suggestion is (at only $8.00) exceptionally worthwhile. You did mention a little oil burning and I suppose that could contaminate the runner butterflies and cause them to be sticky. However - I note that the PCV vacuum is drawn on the bank 2 side of the TB, and your code (P2006) says runner on bank 1 is stuck. ???? (Although I cant understand how the hell the PCM could figure that out - the linkage is solid common to both sides!!!) So the code P2006 wouldn't be conclusive against trying it.
But I did want to re-iterate that it was almost IMPOSSIBLE for me to get my IMRC to do ANYTHING sitting still. I had to duct tape the bore scope in place with display inside passenger window and go for a drive. When the truck was moving - a mild load above certain rpms would cause the IMRC to 'slam' wide "OPEN". I could rev 3 - 4000 or even 4500 sitting still and get nothing. This is why I requested your observations. It's operation seemed totally KOOKY to me. I could never get it to open by loading the engine in drive /or 2nd gear/ with foot on the brake. It was as though the PCM required some mph in conjunction with rpms. (I would like to see you verify this before removing the intake manifold - which is a PITA.) I think I could see in the video your valve "tried" to move. Perhaps your IMRC valve is not DOA, and the runners are just a little carboned up and stuck like the code says. @Sommers22's suggestion could work.
If you have to remove the IM, the Break Booster vacuum line that connects to the bottom rear of the IM was impossible for me to reconnect. I had to install the IM with a new piece of vacuum hose already connected to that nipple and kill the original brake booster line!!!!
ALSO. Your description of the intake runners is more in line with a different version than those employed on our trucks. Here is a picture of a 5.4L triton intake runners and manifold. The single, moveable butterfly in the intake port has a slit (perhaps 15% of its surface area) right behind the injector holes (on bank 2), in front of on bank 1. The actuator shaft runs the full length of the runners and is connected to the IMRC at the rear.
The following 2 users liked this post by EBC-150:
55_Cans (03-04-2024),
F150Torqued (01-17-2016)
01-17-2016, 09:11 PM
#22
Senior Member
Hunter,
Thanks for sharing your findings. Just when I think I'm pretty darn knowledgeable about my truck I see a thread like this one. I hate to admit I didn't even know there was an IMRC system on this truck.
Thanks for sharing your findings. Just when I think I'm pretty darn knowledgeable about my truck I see a thread like this one. I hate to admit I didn't even know there was an IMRC system on this truck.
01-24-2016, 10:10 PM
#25
Originally Posted by HunterFL772
This is where I'm at. The block side of the runners are pretty dirty, can't really polish them without metal falling into the cylinders.
Looks good, are those MSD COIL PACKS?
01-24-2016, 10:19 PM
#26
I have been using mineral spirits to clean mostly. I had some gunk remover, but the mineral spirits seem to work much better. I will check out the MOPAR stuff.
I am having to check myself... I had a new alternator and new injectors in my shopping cart at one time or another today. Had to talk myself down. Alternator alternates good (squeaks on the bench but I dont notice it in the truck) and no problems with my current injectors, other than that they tick like crazy. I did buy a new belt... it still had the original belt on it!
Both could be replaced at a later time without too much heartache.
I broke on of the "clip thingys" on an injector connector. It still goes on and feels fairly firm on there, but wont lock in anymore. Is it worth buying a new connector, cutting wire, and attaching a new one?
I am having to check myself... I had a new alternator and new injectors in my shopping cart at one time or another today. Had to talk myself down. Alternator alternates good (squeaks on the bench but I dont notice it in the truck) and no problems with my current injectors, other than that they tick like crazy. I did buy a new belt... it still had the original belt on it!
Both could be replaced at a later time without too much heartache.
I broke on of the "clip thingys" on an injector connector. It still goes on and feels fairly firm on there, but wont lock in anymore. Is it worth buying a new connector, cutting wire, and attaching a new one?
01-24-2016, 10:25 PM
#27
Originally Posted by HunterFL772
I have been using mineral spirits to clean mostly. I had some gunk remover, but the mineral spirits seem to work much better. I will check out the MOPAR stuff.
I am having to check myself... I had a new alternator and new injectors in my shopping cart at one time or another today. Had to talk myself down. Alternator alternates good (squeaks on the bench but I dont notice it in the truck) and no problems with my current injectors, other than that they tick like crazy. I did buy a new belt... it still had the original belt on it!
Both could be replaced at a later time without too much heartache.
I broke on of the "clip thingys" on an injector connector. It still goes on and feels fairly firm on there, but wont lock in anymore. Is it worth buying a new connector, cutting wire, and attaching a new one?
I am having to check myself... I had a new alternator and new injectors in my shopping cart at one time or another today. Had to talk myself down. Alternator alternates good (squeaks on the bench but I dont notice it in the truck) and no problems with my current injectors, other than that they tick like crazy. I did buy a new belt... it still had the original belt on it!
Both could be replaced at a later time without too much heartache.
I broke on of the "clip thingys" on an injector connector. It still goes on and feels fairly firm on there, but wont lock in anymore. Is it worth buying a new connector, cutting wire, and attaching a new one?
If it's an injector clip for the fuel rail it's also no big deal, they are just there so when you pull the fuel rail the injectors stay in the fuel rail..
That alternator definitely squeaks.. I'd swap it just because it's going to need to happen sooner than later anyway.. But that job is so easy it's also a "meh" repair at this point..
01-24-2016, 10:34 PM
#28
They are MSD coil packs. No issues with them, they look nice. Perform just like OEM.
Thats what my thought process was. It came down to a "Ill do it later" since I should devote all my attention to the original issue. I may still do it though.
Here are some pictures of the nasty runners on the block. Dont know how to clean them as I dont want that running down into the chamber. Sorry, used a potato for a flash.
I was considering stuffing a paper towel down the runners and then using a chemical cleaner and try to wipe the carbon away. Even still, I risk dropping that big stuff down there or hydrolocking a piston. And I am not going to take a plug out to try and prevent that! hahah!
My next plan was to go after my leak in the exhaust manifold. I was saving money for that. That job is going to be a huge PITA.
Thats what my thought process was. It came down to a "Ill do it later" since I should devote all my attention to the original issue. I may still do it though.
Here are some pictures of the nasty runners on the block. Dont know how to clean them as I dont want that running down into the chamber. Sorry, used a potato for a flash.
I was considering stuffing a paper towel down the runners and then using a chemical cleaner and try to wipe the carbon away. Even still, I risk dropping that big stuff down there or hydrolocking a piston. And I am not going to take a plug out to try and prevent that! hahah!
My next plan was to go after my leak in the exhaust manifold. I was saving money for that. That job is going to be a huge PITA.
Last edited by HunterFL772; 01-24-2016 at 10:46 PM. Reason: speling
01-26-2016, 10:14 PM
#29
sad to report that after taking it all apart, cleaning, new gaskets, new alternator, new imrc actuator it did not work.
Got in the truck and revved around 4k and the valves never moved. Maybe the engine has to be at operating temp? Idk.
White flag, thrown
Got in the truck and revved around 4k and the valves never moved. Maybe the engine has to be at operating temp? Idk.
White flag, thrown
The following users liked this post:
55_Cans (03-04-2024)
01-27-2016, 04:01 AM
#30
LightningRod
Yes, there are conditions that have to be met before the ECU will "enable" operation of the IMRC (Swirl control valve). It takes more to get mine to do anything when the engine is cold AND when ambient temp is cold. I think it is harder to 'atomize' the fuel mixture in colder air. BUT, mine won't do 'squat' sitting still in the driveway in neutral. You can border on slinging the rods through the hood and it won't budge.
I can see by monitoring the OBDII signal (IMSC) "Intake Manifold Runner (Swirl) Control" is an enable bit maintained by the ECU. It is enabled when conditions are correct and the thing will open. If you can monitor custom PIDs on a scanner - it is PID # 1103 bit 4. It will go high (ON) when it is enabled and opens - either part way or all the way open.
I can see by monitoring the OBDII signal (IMSC) "Intake Manifold Runner (Swirl) Control" is an enable bit maintained by the ECU. It is enabled when conditions are correct and the thing will open. If you can monitor custom PIDs on a scanner - it is PID # 1103 bit 4. It will go high (ON) when it is enabled and opens - either part way or all the way open.