Another P0012, but maybe a little different
09-10-2015, 12:56 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Another P0012, but maybe a little different
First off, 2005 Lariat with the 5.4L and 175000 miles.
So here we go, I've had what I believed to be the phaser noise since I've owned the vehicle in 08. No loss of power, many long distant road trips, no issues and never had a CEL the entire time. Plugs and COPS were replaced last year after I developed the 45-55 hesitation/jerking upshift issue and that corrected the problem. Still never a CEL.
Now lets jump to last week, left the house and got about a mile down the road and my Oil Pressure drops to below L, truck starts to stutter and I pull over. No loud metal to metal noise and no CEL. Restart it, pressure goes up and I get it back home.
Let it sit for a little while, then go back out and start it up. This time it sounds rougher than normal and my Oil Pressure drops to L at Idle after a few minutes. After this going on I tried the VCT solenoids first....sounded a lot better but still had the Oil Pressure drop (NO CEL). Towed it to my mechanic and had him drop the pan, check for sludge, any pieces and remove the freaking FRAM oil filter. He said there was sludge in their and cleaned things out.
PIck up the vehicle and it runs great, no hesitation, no low oil pressure and even quiter than it has been since I got it BUT the next morning I got the infamous P0012 code and the CEL light. No other codes, only the P0012. If I do clear the code it comes back after a couple of starts.
So far I have switched the VCTs and CPS to the other sides and the code doesn't change. I haven't had any crazy idle or anything yet. I think it sounds and runs better than it did before but I never got a code/CEL until the issue and pan removal, oil/filter change.
Can anyone suggest anything else to check/do before tearing into the engine?
1. More sludge stilll floating around in engine? Was the sludge allowing for more pressure like a higher viscosity oil would be.
2. Could it have jumped time when I first had the issue and the CEL never popped because I didn't drive it, only idled? ANy way to check without tearing the front cover off?
3. Suspecting Oil Pump and Phasers but it's running great so far.
4. Anyone in Georgia thats done the phasers, chains, etc.... and wants to trade some Custom Paint/Airbrushing for Labor. My FB page is EagleEye.artwork if interested.
Thanks all, IF I get this figured out I will post the outcome. While searching I see a lot of folks never come back on and give answers/solutions.
...........Kwit
So here we go, I've had what I believed to be the phaser noise since I've owned the vehicle in 08. No loss of power, many long distant road trips, no issues and never had a CEL the entire time. Plugs and COPS were replaced last year after I developed the 45-55 hesitation/jerking upshift issue and that corrected the problem. Still never a CEL.
Now lets jump to last week, left the house and got about a mile down the road and my Oil Pressure drops to below L, truck starts to stutter and I pull over. No loud metal to metal noise and no CEL. Restart it, pressure goes up and I get it back home.
Let it sit for a little while, then go back out and start it up. This time it sounds rougher than normal and my Oil Pressure drops to L at Idle after a few minutes. After this going on I tried the VCT solenoids first....sounded a lot better but still had the Oil Pressure drop (NO CEL). Towed it to my mechanic and had him drop the pan, check for sludge, any pieces and remove the freaking FRAM oil filter. He said there was sludge in their and cleaned things out.
PIck up the vehicle and it runs great, no hesitation, no low oil pressure and even quiter than it has been since I got it BUT the next morning I got the infamous P0012 code and the CEL light. No other codes, only the P0012. If I do clear the code it comes back after a couple of starts.
So far I have switched the VCTs and CPS to the other sides and the code doesn't change. I haven't had any crazy idle or anything yet. I think it sounds and runs better than it did before but I never got a code/CEL until the issue and pan removal, oil/filter change.
Can anyone suggest anything else to check/do before tearing into the engine?
1. More sludge stilll floating around in engine? Was the sludge allowing for more pressure like a higher viscosity oil would be.
2. Could it have jumped time when I first had the issue and the CEL never popped because I didn't drive it, only idled? ANy way to check without tearing the front cover off?
3. Suspecting Oil Pump and Phasers but it's running great so far.
4. Anyone in Georgia thats done the phasers, chains, etc.... and wants to trade some Custom Paint/Airbrushing for Labor. My FB page is EagleEye.artwork if interested.
Thanks all, IF I get this figured out I will post the outcome. While searching I see a lot of folks never come back on and give answers/solutions.
...........Kwit
09-10-2015, 01:03 PM
#2
The solution is to KwitcherBitchin.
Jk... I do think it could be related to your timing equipment and possibly the oil pump. Have you tried any kind of oil additive, such as Kreen, to clean the engine out? (I'd advise against SeaFoam in the crankcase.) You could have a blockage or blown a seal, such as under a chain tensioner.
Jk... I do think it could be related to your timing equipment and possibly the oil pump. Have you tried any kind of oil additive, such as Kreen, to clean the engine out? (I'd advise against SeaFoam in the crankcase.) You could have a blockage or blown a seal, such as under a chain tensioner.
09-10-2015, 01:16 PM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
LOL, I hear ya
Yea, I've seen all the issues with the seals behind the tensioners. It's just boggling my mind that it never did that before and while initial troubleshooting for the Low oil pressure at Idle and after the VCT replacement.
Just sucks cause it's my daily driver and can't put it down for a long time, plus funds are kinda tight right now.
Yea, I've seen all the issues with the seals behind the tensioners. It's just boggling my mind that it never did that before and while initial troubleshooting for the Low oil pressure at Idle and after the VCT replacement.
Just sucks cause it's my daily driver and can't put it down for a long time, plus funds are kinda tight right now.
09-10-2015, 01:17 PM
#4
I don't suppose you've got a second vehicle or friend's second vehicle you can use for a few days while you open everything up?
09-10-2015, 01:52 PM
#5
Senior Member
If your referring to the stock oil pressure gauge in the cluster you do not have one. the so called gauge on your truck is nothing more than an idiot light with a pointer instead of a bulb.
As soon as the sensor switch detects oil pressure [about 5 lbs] it closes and tells the "gauge " to move to a point near the middle of the dial. so the gauge only has 2 positions normal and 0 regardless of the actual pressure.
The sensor switch's are prone to fail but it is easy and inexpensive fix to cure the fluctuating gauge. the only way to know the actual oil pressure on your truck is to install a real oil pressure gauge. Fords have used this system for years to fool people into thinking they have a gauge.
As soon as the sensor switch detects oil pressure [about 5 lbs] it closes and tells the "gauge " to move to a point near the middle of the dial. so the gauge only has 2 positions normal and 0 regardless of the actual pressure.
The sensor switch's are prone to fail but it is easy and inexpensive fix to cure the fluctuating gauge. the only way to know the actual oil pressure on your truck is to install a real oil pressure gauge. Fords have used this system for years to fool people into thinking they have a gauge.
09-10-2015, 01:58 PM
#6
If your referring to the stock oil pressure gauge in the cluster you do not have one. the so called gauge on your truck is nothing more than an idiot light with a pointer instead of a bulb.
As soon as the sensor switch detects oil pressure [about 5 lbs] it closes and tells the "gauge " to move to a point near the middle of the dial. so the gauge only has 2 positions normal and 0 regardless of the actual pressure.
The sensor switch's are prone to fail but it is easy and inexpensive fix to cure the fluctuating gauge. the only way to know the actual oil pressure on your truck is to install a real oil pressure gauge. Fords have used this system for years to fool people into thinking they have a gauge.
As soon as the sensor switch detects oil pressure [about 5 lbs] it closes and tells the "gauge " to move to a point near the middle of the dial. so the gauge only has 2 positions normal and 0 regardless of the actual pressure.
The sensor switch's are prone to fail but it is easy and inexpensive fix to cure the fluctuating gauge. the only way to know the actual oil pressure on your truck is to install a real oil pressure gauge. Fords have used this system for years to fool people into thinking they have a gauge.
09-10-2015, 04:39 PM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Alright, one other thing I just noticed is it appears to pop the CEL after going in Reverse (like backing out of my driveway) and then putting it in Drive. Not sure if that is any help for the 5.4 Gurus.
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09-10-2015, 05:04 PM
#8
Senior Member
09-11-2015, 07:38 AM
#9
Depends on what code it throws and how many times you can get it to replicate doing exactly that.
09-13-2015, 01:39 PM
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Alright,
I was able to finally get gauge and install them. Here's what I get
First start and idle reads about 55 steady, no fluctuating.
By the time it gets to operating temp its reading about 20-25 psi.
It does drop about 5 psi when going into drive and reverse, I'm guessing this drop is normal, but that put me a little below 20.
Giving it throttle (in neutral) brings me back up to the 50-60 mark
No real crazy noise, just the normal phaser noise it's always had. Even fainter now that the VCTs were replaced.
I'm thinking it could be bleeding off from the Tensioner like others, I'm just wanting to be a little more positive before dropping money. I've seen a lot of threads on this p0012 and some have replaced evrything up front but it returns. I also did pop a p0021 yesterday while driving around along with the p0012. 2 separate banks
I was able to finally get gauge and install them. Here's what I get
First start and idle reads about 55 steady, no fluctuating.
By the time it gets to operating temp its reading about 20-25 psi.
It does drop about 5 psi when going into drive and reverse, I'm guessing this drop is normal, but that put me a little below 20.
Giving it throttle (in neutral) brings me back up to the 50-60 mark
No real crazy noise, just the normal phaser noise it's always had. Even fainter now that the VCTs were replaced.
I'm thinking it could be bleeding off from the Tensioner like others, I'm just wanting to be a little more positive before dropping money. I've seen a lot of threads on this p0012 and some have replaced evrything up front but it returns. I also did pop a p0021 yesterday while driving around along with the p0012. 2 separate banks