2004 F150 5.4 3V Stalls after warmed up
07-30-2014, 08:57 AM
#12
VCT solenoids
I pulled the connectors on the VCT solenoids and the truck runs poorly when cold. Low power, erratic acceleration, etc. When it gets hot, the idle becomes very rough and it stalls when in gear. So not better.
I ordered new VCT solenoids and was ready to change them until I found that I had the small (1 3/4") holes in the valve cover where the seals go for the VCT solenoid. While I could remove the seal, I can't get a torx screwdriver past the solenoid and the tab for the screw would not clear the hole even if I could get it loose.
This engine will need to have the valve covers removed to replace VCT solenoids and it looks like a Herculean task since the AC lines really hug it on the passenger side.
So I guess the question is what did I actually prove by pulling the VCT solenoid connectors? If it ran and idled well when hot we would say the solenoids were bad?
I'm bummed because it seems like a very likely culprit and I was ready to swap them when I thought it was an hour of work. To do it on this looks like a 8-10 hour PIA which will require breaking the AC hose and removing the AC dryer, ECU, battery and box and still will be tight as hell. How very disappointing it would be to do this and still have the problem.
I take it the VCT solenoids don't have a distinctive code that they will throw when bad?
Bob
I ordered new VCT solenoids and was ready to change them until I found that I had the small (1 3/4") holes in the valve cover where the seals go for the VCT solenoid. While I could remove the seal, I can't get a torx screwdriver past the solenoid and the tab for the screw would not clear the hole even if I could get it loose.
This engine will need to have the valve covers removed to replace VCT solenoids and it looks like a Herculean task since the AC lines really hug it on the passenger side.
So I guess the question is what did I actually prove by pulling the VCT solenoid connectors? If it ran and idled well when hot we would say the solenoids were bad?
I'm bummed because it seems like a very likely culprit and I was ready to swap them when I thought it was an hour of work. To do it on this looks like a 8-10 hour PIA which will require breaking the AC hose and removing the AC dryer, ECU, battery and box and still will be tight as hell. How very disappointing it would be to do this and still have the problem.
I take it the VCT solenoids don't have a distinctive code that they will throw when bad?
Bob
When i unplugged my VCT solenoids i got codes P0010 and P0020
07-31-2014, 01:54 AM
#13
Senior Member
I will tell you all with 100% confidence, the problem lies in the oil pump....I chased the same problems for the last 2 years. last month mine shut down, wouldn't restart....oil pump broke....found out, the 5.4 is entirely run by oil pressure, when up to operating temp oil thins and blows by pump thusly dropping pressure....anything below 15psi and the motor starves, oil goes from flow to trickle, VCT solenoids freak, which in turn freaks the phasers, then the PCM freaks, then the stall because the PCM can't decide what else to do.....left unchecked, you'll be shelling out $3,500 for a motor swap, just like me....just my opinion, AND experience
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Johnny Paycheck (05-03-2021)
07-31-2014, 04:07 AM
#15
Senior Member
Racecrew has a point. If you have had rattling at start up, or the phaser issue, the chain guides can break apart. Peices of those have a tendency to block oil pick up screen. Even if the timing system has been reworked, the screen may still be clogged and is starving the motor of oil. This may not be your issue, but it is a definite possibility.
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Johnny Paycheck (05-03-2021)
07-31-2014, 07:30 AM
#16
I will tell you all with 100% confidence, the problem lies in the oil pump....I chased the same problems for the last 2 years. last month mine shut down, wouldn't restart....oil pump broke....found out, the 5.4 is entirely run by oil pressure, when up to operating temp oil thins and blows by pump thusly dropping pressure....anything below 15psi and the motor starves, oil goes from flow to trickle, VCT solenoids freak, which in turn freaks the phasers, then the PCM freaks, then the stall because the PCM can't decide what else to do.....left unchecked, you'll be shelling out $3,500 for a motor swap, just like me....just my opinion, AND experience
By unplugging the oil temp sensor, does this lock the phasers? ...
07-31-2014, 08:29 AM
#17
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Thanks Racecrew. Sounds like a real possibility. This is a Jasper rebuild with 20k miles on it. The original lunched a head after the cam phaser stuck at 110k. It would seem strange for an oil pump to go bad at 20k but always a possibility.
I dropped it at a repair shop Monday and they are trying to diagnose it. I will pass this on to them. So far they have diagnosed a bad miss in 3 and 7 that happens all the time. They also found that the reason it stalls is the VCT is retarding it out of range when it gets hot. Does this seem like it would jive with low oil pressure?
Bob
I dropped it at a repair shop Monday and they are trying to diagnose it. I will pass this on to them. So far they have diagnosed a bad miss in 3 and 7 that happens all the time. They also found that the reason it stalls is the VCT is retarding it out of range when it gets hot. Does this seem like it would jive with low oil pressure?
Bob
I will tell you all with 100% confidence, the problem lies in the oil pump....I chased the same problems for the last 2 years. last month mine shut down, wouldn't restart....oil pump broke....found out, the 5.4 is entirely run by oil pressure, when up to operating temp oil thins and blows by pump thusly dropping pressure....anything below 15psi and the motor starves, oil goes from flow to trickle, VCT solenoids freak, which in turn freaks the phasers, then the PCM freaks, then the stall because the PCM can't decide what else to do.....left unchecked, you'll be shelling out $3,500 for a motor swap, just like me....just my opinion, AND experience
08-01-2014, 09:11 AM
#18
The vapor management valve was just a suggestion. It's located on the drivers side of the firewall and has vacuum hose going in to it. As good as the forums are, one has to take some advice with a grain of salt. I had read on another forum that replacing this valve corrected a similar issue experienced by others. The more I've studied this problem that you and I both have, the more I feel this IS NOT the issue.
I'm falling back to what I believe is a more likely cause. My engine is throwing a code P0022. This is the over retarded cam bank 2. I've seen youtube videos of the VCT solenoid stuck in the open or closed position. This could easily have the effect of placing the cam in a incorrect position. Of course oil pressure could also be the culprit but I'm only getting a code on one bank, not both. I've ordered the VCT Solenoids off fleabay. Will post my results once they are in.
I'm falling back to what I believe is a more likely cause. My engine is throwing a code P0022. This is the over retarded cam bank 2. I've seen youtube videos of the VCT solenoid stuck in the open or closed position. This could easily have the effect of placing the cam in a incorrect position. Of course oil pressure could also be the culprit but I'm only getting a code on one bank, not both. I've ordered the VCT Solenoids off fleabay. Will post my results once they are in.
08-01-2014, 10:30 AM
#19
The vapor management valve was just a suggestion. It's located on the drivers side of the firewall and has vacuum hose going in to it. As good as the forums are, one has to take some advice with a grain of salt. I had read on another forum that replacing this valve corrected a similar issue experienced by others. The more I've studied this problem that you and I both have, the more I feel this IS NOT the issue.
I'm falling back to what I believe is a more likely cause. My engine is throwing a code P0022. This is the over retarded cam bank 2. I've seen youtube videos of the VCT solenoid stuck in the open or closed position. This could easily have the effect of placing the cam in a incorrect position. Of course oil pressure could also be the culprit but I'm only getting a code on one bank, not both. I've ordered the VCT Solenoids off fleabay. Will post my results once they are in.
I'm falling back to what I believe is a more likely cause. My engine is throwing a code P0022. This is the over retarded cam bank 2. I've seen youtube videos of the VCT solenoid stuck in the open or closed position. This could easily have the effect of placing the cam in a incorrect position. Of course oil pressure could also be the culprit but I'm only getting a code on one bank, not both. I've ordered the VCT Solenoids off fleabay. Will post my results once they are in.
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luvtofish (08-01-2014)
08-02-2014, 06:40 AM
#20
Ok.... Here is a little update ....So I changed my vct solenoids last night, ....I drove my truck for about 5 miles around town to get it up to temperature and I did not get any codes.
What I found, when I removed bank2 vct solenoid(driver side which is the side that I got codes from 0345 and 0349), was very small metal flake (smaller and finer than glitter... When rubbed between my fingers looked like a paste). My thought is that this could have clogged the vct solenoid and be the cause of the problem.
Well Saturday morning I will be driving a little more so I will update you guys how my truck is running.
Oh and I bought the vct solenoids with seals on eBay from a ford dealer in Ohio $114.95
So i drove my truck this morning aprox. 100 miles today and I did not get the engine codes back. I passed NJ inspection with no problems truck seem to be running a little smoother and idle is steady at 600rpm. AS far as the metal found on the solenoid i don't know what to make of it. However, I change my oil twice, plus an oil filter with in a week before replacing the solenoids and it came out clean. .. any thoughts on the metal found on the solenoid?
Just wanted to update this forum with my info in case this helps.
What I found, when I removed bank2 vct solenoid(driver side which is the side that I got codes from 0345 and 0349), was very small metal flake (smaller and finer than glitter... When rubbed between my fingers looked like a paste). My thought is that this could have clogged the vct solenoid and be the cause of the problem.
Well Saturday morning I will be driving a little more so I will update you guys how my truck is running.
Oh and I bought the vct solenoids with seals on eBay from a ford dealer in Ohio $114.95
So i drove my truck this morning aprox. 100 miles today and I did not get the engine codes back. I passed NJ inspection with no problems truck seem to be running a little smoother and idle is steady at 600rpm. AS far as the metal found on the solenoid i don't know what to make of it. However, I change my oil twice, plus an oil filter with in a week before replacing the solenoids and it came out clean. .. any thoughts on the metal found on the solenoid?
Just wanted to update this forum with my info in case this helps.
Last edited by tzr250rg; 08-02-2014 at 04:20 PM.
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luvtofish (08-09-2014)