worse brake performance after replacing with Hawk LTS and rotors
05-20-2015, 08:14 AM
#11
Mark
iTrader: (1)
05-20-2015, 08:49 AM
#12
Boost :)
I've done brake jobs probably 100+ times in my life, including working for two different race teams, and have NEVER bled brakes after doing a pad and/or rotor swap. I always make sure to take the cap off the master cylinder before I start so that if fluid does come in there and overflow the cylinder, I'm not fighting the pressure in there and the caliper can compress more freely.
I certainly can understand some people's reason behind doing it, but unless some other error was made during the pad swap and caliper compression, I don't see how bleeding the brakes is going to help. Something else has to be going on with this situation.
I also put the Hawk rotors and pads on my truck. Mine is a 2013 with 33k miles so I'm right there with you. I did all the work myself, did NOT bleed anything, and mind work great. They are definitely a marginal improvement over stock, but as badly as my rotors were warped and causing shaking inside the truck, anything would be better
Best of luck in finding out the problem, but as I said, unless some other mistake was made or somehow another issue presented itself during the swap, I don't see how bleeding will help.
I certainly can understand some people's reason behind doing it, but unless some other error was made during the pad swap and caliper compression, I don't see how bleeding the brakes is going to help. Something else has to be going on with this situation.
I also put the Hawk rotors and pads on my truck. Mine is a 2013 with 33k miles so I'm right there with you. I did all the work myself, did NOT bleed anything, and mind work great. They are definitely a marginal improvement over stock, but as badly as my rotors were warped and causing shaking inside the truck, anything would be better
Best of luck in finding out the problem, but as I said, unless some other mistake was made or somehow another issue presented itself during the swap, I don't see how bleeding will help.
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isthatahemi (05-20-2015)
05-20-2015, 09:47 AM
#13
Senior Member
I manage an automotive shop and over the last 1000 brake jobs, I've bled brakes after intrusion of air; blown caliper, blown brake like, caliper change etc. As far as the Hawk pads go, IDK. But the introduction of air shouldn't be an issue. I put EBC on mine and the SOB stops on a dime.
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isthatahemi (05-20-2015)
05-20-2015, 10:39 AM
#14
No reason to not try bleeding brakes. In my opinion it is a good idea to bleed brake at every pad or lining change. It is in the calipers that the brake fluid is subject to the most heat. Heat over time deteriorates the fluid. Many time when I have taken calipers apart, I see some sludge in the piston chamber. Bleeding helps reduce that.
05-20-2015, 12:10 PM
#16
Mark
iTrader: (1)
No reason to not try bleeding brakes. In my opinion it is a good idea to bleed brake at every pad or lining change. It is in the calipers that the brake fluid is subject to the most heat. Heat over time deteriorates the fluid. Many time when I have taken calipers apart, I see some sludge in the piston chamber. Bleeding helps reduce that.
Changing the brake fluid in our trucks is a scheduled maintenance item...this is to prevent this from happening.
05-20-2015, 12:48 PM
#17
Senior Member
05-20-2015, 12:57 PM
#18
done 300+ brake jobs. agree you dont bleed them unless you open the valve.
I have replaced my brakes twice already. Here are my perceptions
1. OE Brakes. Replaced at roughly 22K. Warped rotors and pads warn on fronts.
2. @ 22K Replaced with Centric Rotors and HAWK LTS pads.
Rotors NEVER warped and HAWK LTS pads had no issues. Stopping was maybe 10% better than OE anecdotally.
Got about 35K out of these.
3. @55-57K
FRONT
Product: Hawk LTS Brake Pads
Product: StopTech Slotted Brake Rotors
REAR
Power Stop Truck & Tow Brake Kit: Slotted and drilled. Better for dunking in water (launching boat in salt water).
Pedal feels different. Stopping power is insane - no fade. Seems great for towing. They are not "bluing", cracking, nor grooving with perhaps 18K on them. But I think they are wearing a bit faster in the front.
I have the confidence of a race car in the truck with these brakes. But, I also forget what OE feels like at this point.
NO warpage what so ever.
My experiences similar to your situation are as follows:
1. You introduced air by accident - unaware.
2. Pads are new, rotors are old. Bad match between surfaces can result in poor performance.
3. OE rotors should typically be replaced with OE pads IMO. Pads and rotor compounds are a match. HAWK LTS compounds likely are not the same as OE and might not work well with a used OE rotor.
4. Bed-in can take a while at times.
5. You might have bad brake fluid - but unlikely.
Next time, replace the OE rotors with new OE rotors ($35) and it will be much better.
I have replaced my brakes twice already. Here are my perceptions
1. OE Brakes. Replaced at roughly 22K. Warped rotors and pads warn on fronts.
2. @ 22K Replaced with Centric Rotors and HAWK LTS pads.
Rotors NEVER warped and HAWK LTS pads had no issues. Stopping was maybe 10% better than OE anecdotally.
Got about 35K out of these.
3. @55-57K
FRONT
Product: Hawk LTS Brake Pads
Product: StopTech Slotted Brake Rotors
REAR
Power Stop Truck & Tow Brake Kit: Slotted and drilled. Better for dunking in water (launching boat in salt water).
Pedal feels different. Stopping power is insane - no fade. Seems great for towing. They are not "bluing", cracking, nor grooving with perhaps 18K on them. But I think they are wearing a bit faster in the front.
I have the confidence of a race car in the truck with these brakes. But, I also forget what OE feels like at this point.
NO warpage what so ever.
My experiences similar to your situation are as follows:
1. You introduced air by accident - unaware.
2. Pads are new, rotors are old. Bad match between surfaces can result in poor performance.
3. OE rotors should typically be replaced with OE pads IMO. Pads and rotor compounds are a match. HAWK LTS compounds likely are not the same as OE and might not work well with a used OE rotor.
4. Bed-in can take a while at times.
5. You might have bad brake fluid - but unlikely.
Next time, replace the OE rotors with new OE rotors ($35) and it will be much better.
05-20-2015, 01:58 PM
#19
Senior Member
I can only recall one time, a friend of mine changing his front pads without removing the Master Cylinder cap when he run the pistons in with the c-clamp, he ended up with air in the lines, he is lucky that's all that happened. When you push the pistons in, the fluid runs back into the master cylinder and you create a vacuum if you leave the cap on.
05-20-2015, 06:41 PM
#20
Brake systems are sealed, and a straight up pad replacement should not allow any air in.
The new pads and rotors may have a different friction coefficient, and may require more pedal pressure. The sponginess may just be the lack of bite, exacerbating some slop in the factory system. Not all braking upgrades result in better bite, thermal resistance might be all you get from this swap. The OEM pad / rotor combo has a very high coefficient of friction, and one of the trade-offs is soft / thermally intolerant rotors.
The new pads and rotors may have a different friction coefficient, and may require more pedal pressure. The sponginess may just be the lack of bite, exacerbating some slop in the factory system. Not all braking upgrades result in better bite, thermal resistance might be all you get from this swap. The OEM pad / rotor combo has a very high coefficient of friction, and one of the trade-offs is soft / thermally intolerant rotors.