LiveFreeClimbHard

Last summer while sitting in traffic, waiting on the on ramp to the freeway, my truck started to idle really rough. The entire truck began to shake and the engine sounded like it was on the verge of dying. I gave it a little gas, but couldn't give it much because of all the cars in front of me. After putting the truck in park momentarily I was able to rev the engine and it calmed back down. This happened every couple of weeks always in the same situation, on ramp to the freeway.

I did plenty of searching online and found lots of talk about this sort of issue, but nothing on a vehicle as new as mine. I couldn't have had more than 38k miles on it. Everyone was mentioning cam phasers being the issue. There was a recall on my door handles so I scheduled an appointment for it to be looked at. They fixed my recall, but what do you know, they couldn't find a thing wrong with my truck. In fact, they couldn't even duplicate the issue, but they said I had a dirty sensor (wish I remembered which one, it didn't show up on my ticket) and that my PCM was pretty out dated. I had them flash it.

The truck seemed to run better. I took it up the on ramp under similar conditions and there was no rough idle, but eventually the signs came back. This time, not on the on ramp, but while idling through a parking lot (obviously low RPMs). The problem showed itself more consistently now. After doing more reading I found people mentioning VCT sensors and low oil pressure. I had never paid much attention to the oil pressure when this was happening, just the RPMs, which seemed to remain at a reasonable level. During one event I pulled into a parking stall, shifted into park and left it running. As I watched the gauges, nothing seemed out of the ordinary and then, the check engine light came on. This had never happen before and I'd never had any codes. Now as excited as can be that I had some proof of the issue I checked the codes.

P0012
P0022
P0316
P0341
P0346
(all codes seemed at least generally related to timing)

I scheduled an appointment for the following Friday (yesterday, Feb 1st 2013). Upon taking the truck in I was planning on taking one of their Foreman's on a ride to see if I could duplicate the problem for him. To my luck, as I pulled the truck into the garage the rough idle came back. I quickly grabbed a 'witness' (service manager). After he observed for a moment he brought out a technician who seemed to know just what was going on. He mentioned this could be caused by various things:

VCT sensor
Cam Phasers
Oil
Oil Filter
Low oil pressure

Now, especially while under warranty I always use the recommended filter and oil. Motorcraft filter and Motorcraft oil (5w-20). Those are things that I can easily control.

I checked the truck in and they said they would get back to me. Later that day I received a call from the dealer. They said they had some mediocre news for me. My engine would/could not keep time. As far as they could tell everything was under warranty to this point. In other words, they see the correct oil filter and oil (if they can test that) and they don't see any abuse at this point. Ford has offered me a rental car for the time being so I have some wheels to get to work and classes. The service manager told me that they have to take the engine apart to see what has actually failed. Then, they will have to send pictures to Ford in order to see if the will cover the repair. If they find evidence of infrequent oil changing, wrong oil, etc, then I might have other problems.

I was told this could be an involved part replacement or an entire engine. I'm all for a new engine if it's covered under warranty, but what scares me is what they might find once they open things up. I have always changed my oil every 5k miles and I always use the recommended Motorcraft filter and oil, but that doesn't mean the first owner of the truck did. I read on a different forum about someone with similar issues and Ford required them to show proof (receipts) of oil changes. I asked the service manager about this and he said sometimes Ford asks and sometimes they don't. Well, I had never even thought about keeping my oil change receipts. I buy the oil from Autozone, change the oil and the receipt goes in the garbage with the dirty paper towels. At this point Ford has not asked for receipts, but I wanted to be prepared in case they did. Unfortunately there was no chance I had any of those receipts. However, back years ago my father had signed up for an Autozone's rewards card. It doesn't cost anything, but you get points for your purchases. He'd given myself and my brother each one of the cards. Even after moving out I always referenced the rewards account when purchasing things at Autozone. I thought for sure that the rewards card program should track purchases. Turns out they do! I was able to log into their website with the card number and retrieve transaction history for the last 24 months. I printed off three transactions and have since turned them into the dealer. Unfortunately the service manager that I worked with was not in today so I'm not positive what he will think. He did say that if Ford wants proof then he didn't care if it was just a Walmart receipt as long as it showed 'Motorcraft filter' and 'Motorcraft oil'. The printouts show 'Motorcraft filter' and 'Motorcraft oil', but the times I purchased the 5 quart jugs, those parts are unrecognizable by name. I'm hoping this will not be an issue. This was all preemptive work anyway, but hopefully it will be enough to show I've done regular maintenance.

Now, I wait to hear back from the dealer and Ford. I know there are older threads related to this, but I didn't see anything on a vehicle so new and with so few miles (currently 46,700). I'll update this as I get more information. For anyone interested in seeing the iphone recording of the issue, please see this youtube link . This may help you determine if you are having the same problem.

Thanks

bchandler02

They can NOT by law require you to use a specific brand as long as you are using something that meets their spec. Any respectable brand of oil in the correct weight should be fine. Don't let them fool you on this.

LiveFreeClimbHard

Oh, that's good to know. Thanks for the heads up.

Biff it

My truck has 72,000 kms 2010 f150 5.4L exact same issue as you. Dealer agreed that's it's most likely cam phasers. I'm booked in on the 18th to get ten replaced. The link below is a video of my knocking noise

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...26ABA2E2EE.mp4

Biff it

Has your
Mileage gotten worse?

LiveFreeClimbHard

Your truck sounds just like mine.

You know, I have noticed my mileage go down actually by a few MPGs. It is so hard to tell over the winter since I get cruddy mileage, but I have noticed it has been increasingly hard to reach the MPGs I was when I first got the truck (regardless of cold or warm weather). Are you the first owner? Did your truck throw any codes?

Biff it

No no codes at all. The dealership explained to me that can phasers affect the timing of the
Engine and throws my
Tune off and caused my engine to run excessively rich. I'm only gettig 7 Mpg

Fishhawk460

Your story sounds almost exactly like mine. Right down to the mileage 38K, and the day, last Friday 2/1/13.
I drove to work in Chicago Friday and all was well on the drive in. As I was in the parking garage across from my office the engine started knocking and shaking and the check engine light came on. I shut it down right away. It was knocking and shaking so bad I knew I would never make it home that night so I found a Ford dealer close to downtown Chicago and called them. After the truck had been sitting for a half hour or so I decided to try and chance a drive to the dealership and have them look it over. The truck started right up with no knock or shake, but the check engine light was on. The drive was only 2.5 miles and the engine seemed fine. Idle was good, along with accelleration. I was getting a little frustrated because I figured I'd get to the dealer and the truck wouldn't be making any noises. Just as I pulled up to the service department garage door and the RPM's dropped the knocking and shaking came back. The service manager opened the door and was able to hear everything. Without opening up the engine the first thing he said was it was probably the cam phasers. Four hours later I get a call from the service manager and they are telling me that a seal/gasket behind the timing chain tensioner failed and that my oil pressure was only at 8psi. Should be at a minimum of 25psi. Later on that day when I picked up a rental for the weekend I was able to talk to the tech that was working on the truck and look at the engine after it was torn down. He pointed out the little piece of seal sticking out from behind the tensioner and also said the cams and rollers are scored (which I could see). He is telling me cams, roller lifters, timing chains and guides, and tensioners plus a long list of part will need to be replaced, or I might need a new engine. He filled out a report and sent it to Ford to see what they plan to do. Luckly I changed the oil 1500 miles ago and have always used Motorcraft filters. But now I'm afraid there might be bottom end damage that cannot be seen so I'm hoping for a new engine. New, like in not remanufactured.
The tech also said this is a known issue. Kind of pissed right now to think Ford put and engine in our trucks that had a part that was known to be bad and would likely cause castastrophic failure.

PS .. This is so similar to yours with the mileage, day and symptoms I hope they don't confuse us. Or maybe we'll both get new engines.

LiveFreeClimbHard

Ouch! 7MPGs is pretty ridiculous! I'm averaging between 13-14 this winter. I do a good mix of freeway and traffic light driving. Over last summer I don't think I ever reached a 16MPG average, which I thought was strange considering the summer before I was bordering on 18MPG. I had explained it away in my head figuring I just wasn't being as careful with my driving, but I was still trying really hard to conserve my fuel.

I hear ya. I wasn't all too pleased when I started reading about all the 5.4L cam phasers issue. Before I bought the truck all I heard/read was how solid the 5.4L was. I guess it's all in what you are looking for. I love the truck and I've always been a Ford truck guy, but this engine problem has slightly sour my view of things. Let's hope we both get new engines

Biff it

I've been running my truck with these bad cam phasers for 3 months, dealership has told me it wouldent damage the engine. I'll for sure show them this thread and get them to check over the other parts too