howl after pinion seal/bearing install
10-06-2015, 08:40 PM
#1
howl after pinion seal/bearing install
2012 Crew 6.5ft 4x4 3.73 26,000 miles
I took truck in for leaking pinion seal. Dealer fixed it but i noticed a growl on coast at speeds from 20 mph to 0.
Took back to dealer.
they changed pinion bearing this time but called me at 6pm to tell me they got it back together but now there is a howl around 47 mph. they were giving me an update and said they would have to tear it apart again and see whats going on.
Does anyone have any ideas on the real problem?
This is under the factory 3/36000 as i bought truck in 12/2012.
They seem to be genuinely trying here to fix it right. It is irritating to be down a vehicle for several days.
Is there rental provisions in the factory warranty or is that case by case with the dealer?
I took truck in for leaking pinion seal. Dealer fixed it but i noticed a growl on coast at speeds from 20 mph to 0.
Took back to dealer.
they changed pinion bearing this time but called me at 6pm to tell me they got it back together but now there is a howl around 47 mph. they were giving me an update and said they would have to tear it apart again and see whats going on.
Does anyone have any ideas on the real problem?
This is under the factory 3/36000 as i bought truck in 12/2012.
They seem to be genuinely trying here to fix it right. It is irritating to be down a vehicle for several days.
Is there rental provisions in the factory warranty or is that case by case with the dealer?
10-07-2015, 02:14 AM
#3
Senior Member
They messed up...
First, the pinion seal on the newer F150s (at least on the '13s, verify the same for the '12) is a double lipped external seal; I.e., no reason to un-torque anything to fix leak.
Second, once the torque tension is released on the pinion gear, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get the pinion and ring gears to mesh precisely the way they were when new - no matter WHAT they tell you, it is impossible. The wear pattern cannot be reverted back to new. I've built plenty of gear sets, and will tell you this: convince them they will be money/time way-ahead if they just order up a set of new ring and pinion gears. Anything short of that, and you will have a howl for the rest of the life of your truck.
I hope they do you right, and get this matter resolved for you. Remember, this is really their fault, not yours...
First, the pinion seal on the newer F150s (at least on the '13s, verify the same for the '12) is a double lipped external seal; I.e., no reason to un-torque anything to fix leak.
Second, once the torque tension is released on the pinion gear, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get the pinion and ring gears to mesh precisely the way they were when new - no matter WHAT they tell you, it is impossible. The wear pattern cannot be reverted back to new. I've built plenty of gear sets, and will tell you this: convince them they will be money/time way-ahead if they just order up a set of new ring and pinion gears. Anything short of that, and you will have a howl for the rest of the life of your truck.
I hope they do you right, and get this matter resolved for you. Remember, this is really their fault, not yours...
Last edited by STingray1300; 10-07-2015 at 02:17 AM.
10-07-2015, 07:43 PM
#4
No updates from the dealer today.
I don't know if it's good or bad.
Does anyone know if I should be getting a loaner thru ford 3/36000 warranty?
They have had it 4 days including tomorrow.
I don't know if it's good or bad.
Does anyone know if I should be getting a loaner thru ford 3/36000 warranty?
They have had it 4 days including tomorrow.
10-07-2015, 09:31 PM
#5
They messed up...
First, the pinion seal on the newer F150s (at least on the '13s, verify the same for the '12) is a double lipped external seal; I.e., no reason to un-torque anything to fix leak.
Second, once the torque tension is released on the pinion gear, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get the pinion and ring gears to mesh precisely the way they were when new - no matter WHAT they tell you, it is impossible. The wear pattern cannot be reverted back to new. I've built plenty of gear sets, and will tell you this: convince them they will be money/time way-ahead if they just order up a set of new ring and pinion gears. Anything short of that, and you will have a howl for the rest of the life of your truck.
I hope they do you right, and get this matter resolved for you. Remember, this is really their fault, not yours...
First, the pinion seal on the newer F150s (at least on the '13s, verify the same for the '12) is a double lipped external seal; I.e., no reason to un-torque anything to fix leak.
Second, once the torque tension is released on the pinion gear, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get the pinion and ring gears to mesh precisely the way they were when new - no matter WHAT they tell you, it is impossible. The wear pattern cannot be reverted back to new. I've built plenty of gear sets, and will tell you this: convince them they will be money/time way-ahead if they just order up a set of new ring and pinion gears. Anything short of that, and you will have a howl for the rest of the life of your truck.
I hope they do you right, and get this matter resolved for you. Remember, this is really their fault, not yours...
OK let's start with the top to R+R a rear pinon seal on a f150 you have to remove the flange to remove the seal. That mean you have to remove the flange from the pinion barring. And 2 the torque on the pinon has nothing to do with the backlash or pinion depth. The torque is only barring preload
So with that said OP what most likely happened is that the tech left the pinion nut loose and by loose I mean not torqued all the way it takes a lot of force to tighten these pinion bots like a 5 foot pipe on a braker bar. And with doing that it's possible that the pinion barring got damaged due to not having enough pre-load. No need for a new ring gear and pinion...
Note source I am a Ford Tech
Any other questions just ask!
10-07-2015, 10:22 PM
#6
Wow just wow nothing you said is correct....
OK let's start with the top to R+R a rear pinon seal on a f150 you have to remove the flange to remove the seal. That mean you have to remove the flange from the pinion barring. And 2 the torque on the pinon has nothing to do with the backlash or pinion depth. The torque is only barring preload
So with that said OP what most likely happened is that the tech left the pinion nut loose and by loose I mean not torqued all the way it takes a lot of force to tighten these pinion bots like a 5 foot pipe on a braker bar. And with doing that it's possible that the pinion barring got damaged due to not having enough pre-load. No need for a new ring gear and pinion...
Note source I am a Ford Tech
Any other questions just ask!
OK let's start with the top to R+R a rear pinon seal on a f150 you have to remove the flange to remove the seal. That mean you have to remove the flange from the pinion barring. And 2 the torque on the pinon has nothing to do with the backlash or pinion depth. The torque is only barring preload
So with that said OP what most likely happened is that the tech left the pinion nut loose and by loose I mean not torqued all the way it takes a lot of force to tighten these pinion bots like a 5 foot pipe on a braker bar. And with doing that it's possible that the pinion barring got damaged due to not having enough pre-load. No need for a new ring gear and pinion...
Note source I am a Ford Tech
Any other questions just ask!
Apparently they must have botched the new bearing install as well.
Trip 1: new seal
Trip 2: new bearings
They called and said it had the "new" howl.
I do commend them for honesty about it not being resolved.
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10-08-2015, 04:47 PM
#8
For those following: dealer called and said they replaced the side bearings in the differential as well. They said all is well now. I will pick it up Friday night and let everyone know.
10-08-2015, 05:02 PM
#9
Wow just wow nothing you said is correct....
OK let's start with the top to R+R a rear pinon seal on a f150 you have to remove the flange to remove the seal. That mean you have to remove the flange from the pinion barring. And 2 the torque on the pinon has nothing to do with the backlash or pinion depth. The torque is only barring preload
So with that said OP what most likely happened is that the tech left the pinion nut loose and by loose I mean not torqued all the way it takes a lot of force to tighten these pinion bots like a 5 foot pipe on a braker bar. And with doing that it's possible that the pinion barring got damaged due to not having enough pre-load. No need for a new ring gear and pinion...
Note source I am a Ford Tech
Any other questions just ask!
OK let's start with the top to R+R a rear pinon seal on a f150 you have to remove the flange to remove the seal. That mean you have to remove the flange from the pinion barring. And 2 the torque on the pinon has nothing to do with the backlash or pinion depth. The torque is only barring preload
So with that said OP what most likely happened is that the tech left the pinion nut loose and by loose I mean not torqued all the way it takes a lot of force to tighten these pinion bots like a 5 foot pipe on a braker bar. And with doing that it's possible that the pinion barring got damaged due to not having enough pre-load. No need for a new ring gear and pinion...
Note source I am a Ford Tech
Any other questions just ask!
Spaz pretty much nailed it ^ I've done a boat load of differential rebuilds/repairs my self and an ex Ford tech. The trick I learned to getting the pinion flange torqued just so after a seal only replacement is to run the nut up with an air impact and stop the second it starts hammering, have never had to re do any of my repairs on diffs in the past 35+ years.
.
10-09-2015, 02:50 AM
#10
Senior Member
Wow just wow nothing you said is correct....
OK let's start with the top to R+R a rear pinon seal on a f150 you have to remove the flange to remove the seal. That mean you have to remove the flange from the pinion barring. And 2 the torque on the pinon has nothing to do with the backlash or pinion depth. The torque is only barring preload
So with that said OP what most likely happened is that the tech left the pinion nut loose and by loose I mean not torqued all the way it takes a lot of force to tighten these pinion bots like a 5 foot pipe on a braker bar. And with doing that it's possible that the pinion barring got damaged due to not having enough pre-load. No need for a new ring gear and pinion...
Note source I am a Ford Tech
Any other questions just ask!
OK let's start with the top to R+R a rear pinon seal on a f150 you have to remove the flange to remove the seal. That mean you have to remove the flange from the pinion barring. And 2 the torque on the pinon has nothing to do with the backlash or pinion depth. The torque is only barring preload
So with that said OP what most likely happened is that the tech left the pinion nut loose and by loose I mean not torqued all the way it takes a lot of force to tighten these pinion bots like a 5 foot pipe on a braker bar. And with doing that it's possible that the pinion barring got damaged due to not having enough pre-load. No need for a new ring gear and pinion...
Note source I am a Ford Tech
Any other questions just ask!
I have no gear howling...
Now, I will admit to not having done these critters for some time, so if there's something new in the designs that negates what I said (quite likely), please enlighten me. But I will tell you that when the torque tension has been upset in such a way as to affect the mating surfaces of the pinion and ring teeth, you're going to get a howl. Period.
And to torque things like lower strut/shock mounts and pinion yoke nuts, a "professional" uses a torque-multiplier. Yes it takes 2 people or let the bar rest against the frame, but you don't use a 5ft piece of pipe
Last edited by STingray1300; 10-09-2015 at 02:54 AM.