Rant on my 10-day-old XLT--Any Ford factory mechs here?
03-11-2009, 06:03 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Rant on my 10-day-old XLT--Any Ford factory mechs here?
I was holding off starting this rant until I talked to service, and now that I have, I'm not sure whether they're BS'ing me. Just traded my '00 F250--trouble-free for 110K miles--for an '09 F150 with the 4.6 motor.
I noticed within the first 50-100 miles that there was a knock coming from the engine after it reached operating temp. This is NOT injector 'click' but a deeper metallic knock from one cylinder. Couldn't tell from which bank, but it was audible at an idle both outside the truck and inside with the windows up. It seemed to get quieter with increasing revs, and it wasn't apparent on cold start.
Now this struck me as a little odd since parts usually get tighter when warm, not looser. So I assumed it was maybe a weak/stuck lifter that wasn't pumping up at idle once the oil warmed and got thin. Well, they looked at it today and said it was "a hydraulic cam actuator on the left cylinder bank that controls valve timing" and that the only thing they needed to do to fix it was remove the valve cover and replace it (the cam actuator).
OK, now here comes the technical part that I need a Ford factory mechanic, or at least someone who's real familiar with newer Ford V8s, to help me understand. I've never worked on one of the new Triton motors, so I'm not familiar with their design. However, if what the service rep is saying about the fix is true, doesn't that mean that, 1) the 4.6 motor is a twin overhead cam V8 (one cam/cyl bank), and 2) the 4.6 motor has hydraulically operated VVT (variable valve timing). It's hard for me to believe that the 4.6 and the 5.4 aren't good old pushrod V8s and I thought VVT and twin-OHC was only put in the high-end exotic iron!
I've worked on lots of american push-rod iron, as well as many Jap motorcycle motors--most of 'em OHC motors--so I kind'a know what the set-up has to be to make this repair believable. Anybody got any helpful information that will make me feel better about my new truck going in for major surgury with only 200 miles? Should I put up a bitch-fit and see if I can order a new truck, or at least a new crate motor? Or am I gonna regret this for the next 100,000 miles?
Thx for the help--Bubba
I noticed within the first 50-100 miles that there was a knock coming from the engine after it reached operating temp. This is NOT injector 'click' but a deeper metallic knock from one cylinder. Couldn't tell from which bank, but it was audible at an idle both outside the truck and inside with the windows up. It seemed to get quieter with increasing revs, and it wasn't apparent on cold start.
Now this struck me as a little odd since parts usually get tighter when warm, not looser. So I assumed it was maybe a weak/stuck lifter that wasn't pumping up at idle once the oil warmed and got thin. Well, they looked at it today and said it was "a hydraulic cam actuator on the left cylinder bank that controls valve timing" and that the only thing they needed to do to fix it was remove the valve cover and replace it (the cam actuator).
OK, now here comes the technical part that I need a Ford factory mechanic, or at least someone who's real familiar with newer Ford V8s, to help me understand. I've never worked on one of the new Triton motors, so I'm not familiar with their design. However, if what the service rep is saying about the fix is true, doesn't that mean that, 1) the 4.6 motor is a twin overhead cam V8 (one cam/cyl bank), and 2) the 4.6 motor has hydraulically operated VVT (variable valve timing). It's hard for me to believe that the 4.6 and the 5.4 aren't good old pushrod V8s and I thought VVT and twin-OHC was only put in the high-end exotic iron!
I've worked on lots of american push-rod iron, as well as many Jap motorcycle motors--most of 'em OHC motors--so I kind'a know what the set-up has to be to make this repair believable. Anybody got any helpful information that will make me feel better about my new truck going in for major surgury with only 200 miles? Should I put up a bitch-fit and see if I can order a new truck, or at least a new crate motor? Or am I gonna regret this for the next 100,000 miles?
Thx for the help--Bubba
03-11-2009, 06:38 PM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Wow, the internet is a powerful tool....
....to learn more stuff more quickly than ever before possible. I stand humbled about not believing the service rep after reading the following article:
http://www.compcams.com/information/...chbulletin.pdf
The new 4.6/5.4 3V and 4V engines are indeed OHC motors, one cam/cyl bank, and they do, indeed, have hydraulically-actuated VVT. I learn sum'pin new everyday! Also learn more about the Triton modular engine family on Wikipedia.
...and "HELL YEAH, WARRANTY!" but that don't make me feel a whole lot better about the guts of my new motor being spilled out all over a service bay floor...
http://www.compcams.com/information/...chbulletin.pdf
The new 4.6/5.4 3V and 4V engines are indeed OHC motors, one cam/cyl bank, and they do, indeed, have hydraulically-actuated VVT. I learn sum'pin new everyday! Also learn more about the Triton modular engine family on Wikipedia.
...and "HELL YEAH, WARRANTY!" but that don't make me feel a whole lot better about the guts of my new motor being spilled out all over a service bay floor...
03-14-2009, 07:34 AM
#4
Senior Member
I feel your pain I have a 07 I've been having an issue with oil just disappearing the truck don't seem to be burning it and there is no visible sign of leaking, at around 20k they pulled and replaced the heads they claimed that was the issue well 1500 miles later it's still loosing oil I took it to them the other day the mech claims there was two loose valve cover bolts that might be it or it can be the silicone gasket I'm really having a hard time believing it I have to drop it of this wed so they can have it for a couple of days to really go over it I think they are going to try avoid having to replace motor they a have been doing good by me till this point now it seems they are starting to get shady 
03-14-2009, 08:31 AM
#5
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I was holding off starting this rant until I talked to service, and now that I have, I'm not sure whether they're BS'ing me. Just traded my '00 F250--trouble-free for 110K miles--for an '09 F150 with the 4.6 motor.
I noticed within the first 50-100 miles that there was a knock coming from the engine after it reached operating temp. This is NOT injector 'click' but a deeper metallic knock from one cylinder. Couldn't tell from which bank, but it was audible at an idle both outside the truck and inside with the windows up. It seemed to get quieter with increasing revs, and it wasn't apparent on cold start.
Now this struck me as a little odd since parts usually get tighter when warm, not looser. So I assumed it was maybe a weak/stuck lifter that wasn't pumping up at idle once the oil warmed and got thin. Well, they looked at it today and said it was "a hydraulic cam actuator on the left cylinder bank that controls valve timing" and that the only thing they needed to do to fix it was remove the valve cover and replace it (the cam actuator).
OK, now here comes the technical part that I need a Ford factory mechanic, or at least someone who's real familiar with newer Ford V8s, to help me understand. I've never worked on one of the new Triton motors, so I'm not familiar with their design. However, if what the service rep is saying about the fix is true, doesn't that mean that, 1) the 4.6 motor is a twin overhead cam V8 (one cam/cyl bank), and 2) the 4.6 motor has hydraulically operated VVT (variable valve timing). It's hard for me to believe that the 4.6 and the 5.4 aren't good old pushrod V8s and I thought VVT and twin-OHC was only put in the high-end exotic iron!
I've worked on lots of american push-rod iron, as well as many Jap motorcycle motors--most of 'em OHC motors--so I kind'a know what the set-up has to be to make this repair believable. Anybody got any helpful information that will make me feel better about my new truck going in for major surgury with only 200 miles? Should I put up a bitch-fit and see if I can order a new truck, or at least a new crate motor? Or am I gonna regret this for the next 100,000 miles?
Thx for the help--Bubba
I noticed within the first 50-100 miles that there was a knock coming from the engine after it reached operating temp. This is NOT injector 'click' but a deeper metallic knock from one cylinder. Couldn't tell from which bank, but it was audible at an idle both outside the truck and inside with the windows up. It seemed to get quieter with increasing revs, and it wasn't apparent on cold start.
Now this struck me as a little odd since parts usually get tighter when warm, not looser. So I assumed it was maybe a weak/stuck lifter that wasn't pumping up at idle once the oil warmed and got thin. Well, they looked at it today and said it was "a hydraulic cam actuator on the left cylinder bank that controls valve timing" and that the only thing they needed to do to fix it was remove the valve cover and replace it (the cam actuator).
OK, now here comes the technical part that I need a Ford factory mechanic, or at least someone who's real familiar with newer Ford V8s, to help me understand. I've never worked on one of the new Triton motors, so I'm not familiar with their design. However, if what the service rep is saying about the fix is true, doesn't that mean that, 1) the 4.6 motor is a twin overhead cam V8 (one cam/cyl bank), and 2) the 4.6 motor has hydraulically operated VVT (variable valve timing). It's hard for me to believe that the 4.6 and the 5.4 aren't good old pushrod V8s and I thought VVT and twin-OHC was only put in the high-end exotic iron!
I've worked on lots of american push-rod iron, as well as many Jap motorcycle motors--most of 'em OHC motors--so I kind'a know what the set-up has to be to make this repair believable. Anybody got any helpful information that will make me feel better about my new truck going in for major surgury with only 200 miles? Should I put up a bitch-fit and see if I can order a new truck, or at least a new crate motor? Or am I gonna regret this for the next 100,000 miles?
Thx for the help--Bubba
03-14-2009, 09:16 AM
#6
Senior Member
I feel your pain I have a 07 I've been having an issue with oil just disappearing the truck don't seem to be burning it and there is no visible sign of leaking, at around 20k they pulled and replaced the heads they claimed that was the issue well 1500 miles later it's still loosing oil I took it to them the other day the mech claims there was two loose valve cover bolts that might be it or it can be the silicone gasket I'm really having a hard time believing it I have to drop it of this wed so they can have it for a couple of days to really go over it I think they are going to try avoid having to replace motor they a have been doing good by me till this point now it seems they are starting to get shady
losing ...not loosing ( sorry I can't stand that common error!)
Hey OP don't worry about it...it will be fine!Relax & enjoy your new truck & think about the great mechanic that took really good care of it while tearing into it.
One thing I always do is show the mechanics a little kindness by bringing in some homemade choc chip cookies & ice cold sodas or even their favorite "brew" (with permission & at quitting time) really helps a lot. They are very appreciative & take a lot more care with my cars!
03-17-2009, 12:03 AM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I guess I owe the Forum a post...
Finally got my truck back after 6 days in the shop. They did replace the right-side VVT hardware--solenoid control valve and cam phaser. Mechanic said he did an oil pressure check to make sure it wasn't an oil feed problem, and he said he inspected the cam journals for signs of oil starvation/blueing and it all spec'd out OK. The knock is gone and the engine sounds great, so hear's hoping!
It wasn't a pleasant feeling to only drive my new truck 10 days and have it spend the better part of the next week torn apart in the shop. I'm almost 60 and this is just the second new vehicle I've ever purchased. I've always bought older used cars and trucks and made 'em last by doing the repairs myself, mostly because I had to. Prior to my Fords, my last truck was a used Isuzu P'up 4x4 that gave me a quarter of a million miles before the engine went south. My first new vehicle was a '00 F-250, and it never saw the dealer for any repairs--major or minor--over 9 years other than a couple of wiring recalls. When a good feeling like having a new truck only comes around once every 10 years or so, ya kind'a hope it goes right.
And by the way, I still grin ear to ear when I get in my '09...
It wasn't a pleasant feeling to only drive my new truck 10 days and have it spend the better part of the next week torn apart in the shop. I'm almost 60 and this is just the second new vehicle I've ever purchased. I've always bought older used cars and trucks and made 'em last by doing the repairs myself, mostly because I had to. Prior to my Fords, my last truck was a used Isuzu P'up 4x4 that gave me a quarter of a million miles before the engine went south. My first new vehicle was a '00 F-250, and it never saw the dealer for any repairs--major or minor--over 9 years other than a couple of wiring recalls. When a good feeling like having a new truck only comes around once every 10 years or so, ya kind'a hope it goes right.
And by the way, I still grin ear to ear when I get in my '09...
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03-21-2009, 12:16 AM
#8
1st level gearhead Annon.
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The variable valve timing has had some issues with noise as it runs off of oil in older 5.4s (2004 MY). Normally Ford doesn't have an issue with it unless the oil isn't changed at regular intervals.
The engine is a one cam per bank motor, but can move it's timing with a solenoid and motor oil
But unfortuneately stuff will happen occasionally
The engine is a one cam per bank motor, but can move it's timing with a solenoid and motor oil
But unfortuneately stuff will happen occasionally