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Old 10-20-2012, 04:21 PM   #1981
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It's always amusing to see how people spend their day, whining to anonymous people on Internet forums about their revenge plans against a huge multinational corporation instead of using them for their intended purpose.


SPARK PLUG GAPPING UPDATE: I had set my new NGK LTR6IX-11 plugs to the minimum spec gap of .032" and ran them for about 1500 km. I had immediately noticed improved power and quicker smoother shifting, yet my mileage seemed to worsen slightly. I attributed this to the plug change and the PCM needed to adjust the fuel curves so I let it run for three tanks but did not improve, so out the plugs came and I set them to the same gap as the factory plugs. Mileage somewhat improved.

Now shortly after changing them back to the factory gap, I had checked my tire pressures, and they were not what I usually run them at (38-40 PSI.) So needless to say, inflate tires to 40, mileage returns to its norm.

So I will be testing again, making sure my tires are at the correct pressure and ambient conditions are as close as possible to the last test runs.

EDIT: I'm still of the belief that the coil packs are the weak link. Higher compression ratios (as used in the Ecoboost motors) increase the voltage required for good spark. Reducing the gap is a workaround, not a fix as reducing the gap too far will ultimately reduce the overall performance of the engine, especially at high RPM.


Also, in regards to gapping plugs, most manufacturers have in the past explicitly said NOT to gap fine wire electrode plugs out of the box. NGK has recently updated their site and their gapping instructions. Take a look.

http://www.ngk.com/learning-center/a...g-instructions

Last edited by VoiceOfReason; 10-20-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:23 PM   #1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoiceOfReason View Post
It's always amusing to see how people spend their day, whining to anonymous people on Internet forums about their revenge plans against a huge multinational corporation instead of using them for their intended purpose.
My revenge plans are to discourage every potential Ford purchaser that I encounter from buying a Ford. My goal was to prevent at least one Ford purchase and I've already surpassed that goal. Maybe I should have set the bar higher?

Meanwhile you keep on gapping your plugs and adjusting your air pressure. Maybe you could hire on as a consultant to Ford?
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:55 PM   #1983
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Any 2013's exp this shudder? Mines being delivered in dec
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Old 10-21-2012, 07:45 PM   #1984
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There have been various "shudders", bumps, shimmys, etc, that have been described on various years/models, some of which have not had the exact cause nailed down so it's almost impossible to determine if you have it or not.

Since you have a 2013 the likelyhood of you having one of the identified issues will be minimal. The shudder that is described in this thread has many theories behind it, there have been TSB's issued by Ford (which your truck will come with already applied), and there are further updates supposed to be coming.

When you get the truck, if you feel you are having this issue, go to the 2011+ Engine sub forum and check the Eco spark plug gap topic, or you can PM for information.

I believe there are multiple sources causing these issues synergistically, the current workaround that seems to be the most effective is to either reduce the gap of your stock spark plugs to .032" (if they are in good condition), or replace them with NGK LTR6IX-11 and gap them properly to .032". Make sure that you are also running QUALITY gas.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:10 PM   #1985
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Default Seems to be similar in nature with other issues as well

I am thinking some possible software anomalies are affecting the truck’s functionality. The bigger issues, like the transmission, speedometer, etc, started last night (October 20, 2012). The minor issues, like the iPOD synch voice started 3 or 4 days ago. The USB not available indication started a few weeks ago. The truck staggering and stuttering when accelerating from a stop has been an issue in the past. Ford Service checked it out and said they could not find anything wrong. The last time it was checked was when the truck was in for a TSB for the eco boost function.
This list is some of the symptoms.
1. When I start the truck, the computer “Synch” voice states, “Index full. Some songs may not be available.” This happens sometimes even when my iPod is not connected through the USB.
2. Sometimes when the iPOD is connected through the USB, it is not detected by “Synch” and the stereo read out reads, “USB not available” when I attempt to select it as a music source.
3. Truck started sputtering when taking off from a dead stop; i.e. from a stop light, drive way, etc. Even when stepping on the gas the truck hesitated, stuttered and would act like it was only coasting.
4. When the truck is operating normally at lower speeds, 25 MPH or 35 MPH, stepping on the gas to accelerate would cause the truck to sputter, seemingly misfire and then maybe eventually return to normal. Sometimes I had to completely take my foot off the gas pedal for 4 or 5 seconds to get it to settle down.
5. The odometer and trip meters went to straight line and would not function.
6. The speedometer quit functioning and stayed at zero even though the truck was moving. However, the tachometer continued to function at what seemed normal.
7. The airbag warning light lit up on the dash.
8. A large orange wrench appeared on the dash readout screen, even though no other warning like “Check engine” or “Service engine soon” lit up.
9. Transmission was stuck in 5th gear, even when slowing down or accelerating. I would come to a complete stop and the truck would not downshift itself to a lower gear. Consequently, taking off from a stop light was extremely slow until the truck got up to what would be a normal speed for 5th gear. I tried to use the manual gear shift but it would not function.
10. Fuel economy read out went blank.
11. All analog temperature gauges indicated operating in normal range. Systems check on the dash screen indicated normal operations.
12. When using satellite radio, some readouts quit updating. For example, the artist and song indicated on the read out were not what was actually playing. For those preset stations that were affected, they never updated, even when current song changed to another song. I would go away from the station and return and the readout for the artist and song were still unchanged. This did not affect all channels nor all preset channels. Though this seemed like it could be explained as a Sirius radio service problem, I did not get the feeling there was any issue with the Sirius service. It felt more like an issue with the truck functionality.
13. When engaging the turn signal to its full operation (not the 3 blink indicator), I would make a complete turn and the truck would not disengage the turn signal, even though I had completely recovered from the turn and the truck was continuing in a forward manner. I would have to disengage it manually by initiating the 3 blink indicator.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:53 PM   #1986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoiceOfReason
There have been various "shudders", bumps, shimmys, etc, that have been described on various years/models, some of which have not had the exact cause nailed down so it's almost impossible to determine if you have it or not.

Since you have a 2013 the likelyhood of you having one of the identified issues will be minimal. The shudder that is described in this thread has many theories behind it, there have been TSB's issued by Ford (which your truck will come with already applied), and there are further updates supposed to be coming.

When you get the truck, if you feel you are having this issue, go to the 2011+ Engine sub forum and check the Eco spark plug gap topic, or you can PM for information.

I believe there are multiple sources causing these issues synergistically, the current workaround that seems to be the most effective is to either reduce the gap of your stock spark plugs to .032" (if they are in good condition), or replace them with NGK LTR6IX-11 and gap them properly to .032". Make sure that you are also running QUALITY gas.
I understand what you're saying here, but I have to disagree. I was told, by the Ford field "engineer", that the differences in the 2013's were in the trimmings and cosmetic features on the truck. No significant power train changes were his exact words. I agree that the 2013's will come with all the tsb's, but what have all those tsb's that we have all had done to our trucks accomplished? You know?

I've worked through many trips back to the service dept trying to give the guys all the info I could to do my part in helping them try to identify and fix the problem. To be very honest, i think if I (or any of us with these issues) found out the 2013's didn't have issues because Ford had figured it out.... I'd never own another one. Point being, when it would've been easier to hire a lemon law attorney instead of going back 16 times for repairs or reprograms, some of us have tried to make this work and be patient.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:13 AM   #1987
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Default A new theory

If I may add to the bag of theories...

I have come to believe the misfires, et al are actually more related to fuel starvation. This situation may in fact appear like a water injection off the IC (which could also be occurring in conjunction and wouldn't help) this situation may or may not also produce a CEL but could easily produce misfire codes, maybe even limp mode.

So I am curious, when your shudder happens, what's your fuel level at? I have personally noticed a consistent trend of a significantly more responsive / performing vehicle with a maxed out fuel tank as opposed to an empty or even partially empty tank.

I don't have why the system is starving completely worked out yet... But some possible culprits.

1. Gas tank feed hose misposition, susceptible to sloshing, fuel movement especially with changes of speed and grade. The tank is quite large and I have noticed a pretty considerable amount of fuel can appear displaced on a grade.

2. ADFSO problem possibly combined with a throttle response / race issue. I have observed, and you can see it most on the mpg screen when setting cruise going up hill that the system has an unstable throttle control. I wonder if this activates and inactives ADFSO in succession multiple times cutting the fuel to the injectors and causing shuttering. A power off and power on would reset this behaviour. ADFSO was made significantly more aggressive in ecoboost and covers a wider range of scenarios.

2 seems most likely to me, and having a full tank might shave off some time for the injectors to start fueling again masking the problem. Potentially spark plugs changes could also mask this by causing a slight variance in combustion timing, just enough to prevent starvation.

Some thoughts anyway.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:20 AM   #1988
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It's also super interesting if you read when ADFSO is supposed to take effect...

From my understanding...
1. Must be at normal operating temp.
2. Must be above a speed threshold. (I think it's > 30 mph but need references)
3. Must be in 5th or 6th gears.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:33 AM   #1989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Deptuck
It's also super interesting if you read when ADFSO is supposed to take effect...

From my understanding...
1. Must be at normal operating temp.
2. Must be above a speed threshold. (I think it's > 30 mph but need references)
3. Must be in 5th or 6th gears.
For me, the shudder happens at the times you've referenced. But the misfire/limp mode can happen from a stop getting up to speed or at speed and trying to accelerate to pass, for example.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:16 AM   #1990
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In my experience with the misfiring on the Ecoboost, there is no relation to fuel level and engine misfires on the 2nd bank of cylinders. Going up any sort of grade in 6th gear, truck shakes, engine misfires appear on cylinders 4, 5, 6. Never had the bogging issue, but the bogging issue occurs on the same cylinders by mostly all accounts.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:16 AM
 
 
 
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