Power ratio
05-02-2012, 11:52 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Power ratio
Hola....
So, I have a 250x1 rms Sony amp driving an 8" Rockford Fosgate P2 sub. In a previous truck, I had the HU power a component set (Infinity) on the front stage, and kept things stock on the rear. The Clarion HU pumped out 25w/channel. Those 25w weren't more than likely not that clean. But 25w relative to the 250w sub was pretty dang good.
So, now the question is... what 4 channel amp wattage do I get for my new set up. That old set up was in a Toyota Tacoma (I know. My bad. Don't shoot me.)
What's the proper wattage ratio between sub and mid/high drivers? I was planning on getting a 40w/channel amp. Is that too much? Is it too little?
My sub is sealed so it requires more power. I don't exactly remember, but sorta remember that I'm overpowering my sub at 250w. It lasted just fine for 6+ years.
So, is there a Rule of Thumb to follow? How many watts in a Sub per Watts in door drivers?
So, I have a 250x1 rms Sony amp driving an 8" Rockford Fosgate P2 sub. In a previous truck, I had the HU power a component set (Infinity) on the front stage, and kept things stock on the rear. The Clarion HU pumped out 25w/channel. Those 25w weren't more than likely not that clean. But 25w relative to the 250w sub was pretty dang good.
So, now the question is... what 4 channel amp wattage do I get for my new set up. That old set up was in a Toyota Tacoma (I know. My bad. Don't shoot me.)
What's the proper wattage ratio between sub and mid/high drivers? I was planning on getting a 40w/channel amp. Is that too much? Is it too little?
My sub is sealed so it requires more power. I don't exactly remember, but sorta remember that I'm overpowering my sub at 250w. It lasted just fine for 6+ years.
So, is there a Rule of Thumb to follow? How many watts in a Sub per Watts in door drivers?
05-03-2012, 01:28 AM
#3
I thin you are a little bit confused. Your sub and sub-amp wattages have no correlation to you door speakers at all. Your door/component speakers should be powered to their optimal level. All speakers are rated with a nomial power (this is RMS rating). You should match the ratings on the door speakers to an appropriate amp for best results.
The door speakers and sub play at completely different levels and frequencies. The subs are made to hit the 30-80/100 hz while your doors play from 100-5000+.
Look on the back of your door speakers for RMS ratings. Then find an amp that has that power for each channel. Then assuming you set the xovers properly, you will have a great sounding system where your sub will never out play your doors.
The door speakers and sub play at completely different levels and frequencies. The subs are made to hit the 30-80/100 hz while your doors play from 100-5000+.
Look on the back of your door speakers for RMS ratings. Then find an amp that has that power for each channel. Then assuming you set the xovers properly, you will have a great sounding system where your sub will never out play your doors.
Hola....
So, I have a 250x1 rms Sony amp driving an 8" Rockford Fosgate P2 sub. In a previous truck, I had the HU power a component set (Infinity) on the front stage, and kept things stock on the rear. The Clarion HU pumped out 25w/channel. Those 25w weren't more than likely not that clean. But 25w relative to the 250w sub was pretty dang good.
So, now the question is... what 4 channel amp wattage do I get for my new set up. That old set up was in a Toyota Tacoma (I know. My bad. Don't shoot me.)
What's the proper wattage ratio between sub and mid/high drivers? I was planning on getting a 40w/channel amp. Is that too much? Is it too little?
My sub is sealed so it requires more power. I don't exactly remember, but sorta remember that I'm overpowering my sub at 250w. It lasted just fine for 6+ years.
So, is there a Rule of Thumb to follow? How many watts in a Sub per Watts in door drivers?
So, I have a 250x1 rms Sony amp driving an 8" Rockford Fosgate P2 sub. In a previous truck, I had the HU power a component set (Infinity) on the front stage, and kept things stock on the rear. The Clarion HU pumped out 25w/channel. Those 25w weren't more than likely not that clean. But 25w relative to the 250w sub was pretty dang good.
So, now the question is... what 4 channel amp wattage do I get for my new set up. That old set up was in a Toyota Tacoma (I know. My bad. Don't shoot me.)
What's the proper wattage ratio between sub and mid/high drivers? I was planning on getting a 40w/channel amp. Is that too much? Is it too little?
My sub is sealed so it requires more power. I don't exactly remember, but sorta remember that I'm overpowering my sub at 250w. It lasted just fine for 6+ years.
So, is there a Rule of Thumb to follow? How many watts in a Sub per Watts in door drivers?
05-03-2012, 01:49 AM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I thin you are a little bit confused. Your sub and sub-amp wattages have no correlation to you door speakers at all. Your door/component speakers should be powered to their optimal level. All speakers are rated with a nomial power (this is RMS rating). You should match the ratings on the door speakers to an appropriate amp for best results.
The door speakers and sub play at completely different levels and frequencies. The subs are made to hit the 30-80/100 hz while your doors play from 100-5000+.
Look on the back of your door speakers for RMS ratings. Then find an amp that has that power for each channel. Then assuming you set the xovers properly, you will have a great sounding system where your sub will never out play your doors.
The door speakers and sub play at completely different levels and frequencies. The subs are made to hit the 30-80/100 hz while your doors play from 100-5000+.
Look on the back of your door speakers for RMS ratings. Then find an amp that has that power for each channel. Then assuming you set the xovers properly, you will have a great sounding system where your sub will never out play your doors.
What I apparently didn't explain well was.... What is the best ratio between mid/high drivers and a sub driver. Obviously I wouldn't couple 200w x4 for the mid and high drivers with a 100w x1 sub. The sub and it's amp would be underpowered in comparison.
Likewise, a 100w x4 mid and high setup coupled with a 1000w x1 sub setup. Too much bass, right?
So, back to my original question... What is the rule of thumb ratio between sub power and mid/high power? (better clarified?)
05-03-2012, 08:05 AM
#5
Senior Member
Likewise, a 100w x4 mid and high setup coupled with a 1000w x1 sub setup. Too much bass, right?
So, back to my original question... What is the rule of thumb ratio between sub power and mid/high power? (better clarified?)
So, back to my original question... What is the rule of thumb ratio between sub power and mid/high power? (better clarified?)
Secondly - a 100x4 doors and 1000w sub combo is perfectly fine if that setup matches your speaker choices and would not be too much bass if you've designed and tuned your system correctly.
05-03-2012, 10:17 AM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I think what ibd was saying is that there is no magic ratio or rule of thumb and its all about sizing your system correctly first. You probably know this but with your HU "flat" you will/should level your channels (set gains) so that everything comes together as you like it. Stage to front, lower rear fill, bring in sub stage so its not overpowering. I would recommend a bass control **** to fine tune.
Secondly - a 100x4 doors and 1000w sub combo is perfectly fine if that setup matches your speaker choices and would not be too much bass if you've designed and tuned your system correctly.
Secondly - a 100x4 doors and 1000w sub combo is perfectly fine if that setup matches your speaker choices and would not be too much bass if you've designed and tuned your system correctly.
I understand that one can have any sort of setup; good sound can be subjective. However, I find is hard to believe there is not rule of thumb for a balanced system. For example, for every 1 watt of mid/high = 1.25 watts of low end. Itt obviously takes more poer to run the low end.
In my 100w + 1000w example, lets use 2000w instead. the low end woulld over power the 100w x4 essentially drowning it out.. One would have to really level it down for a balance. And that would be a waste ( wrong amp/sub for the system)
See what I mean?
Engineers probably have a ratio of some sort they use. At least that seems logical to me. Yes?
05-03-2012, 01:00 PM
#7
Thanks , Joe. That was exactly what I was trying to convey.
John,
I fully understand what you are saying, however, their is truly no magic ratio of percentage of mid/high : low end.
Alot of component speakers can play at different db's while having the same power ran to them. For instance; you could have a set of Alpine speakers and a set of Focal speakers rated for the same wattage. However, the Focals may be twice as loud and or clear at the same volume/wattage as the type R's. It's just a tuning, and crossover game. This is why I recommend everyone matching a 4-Channel amp to their componenets optimal power rating, then running a good processor. Once your speakers are properly powered, then you can use the filters and gain to match it your subs output (or vice versa).
A couple of properly set up 6.5" speakers rated at 60 watts would have no trouble keeping up with a 1500 watt sub. Assuming all x overs, hpf, lpf, are set accordingly.
If you are still looking for a ratio;
I run Focal K2 P's up front
Type R 6x8's in the rear. Both powered by a Focal FPP 4100 (90 rms x4)
The subs are two Alpine type R 10's pushed by a Rockford T1500 (~1900rms). They are approx. receiving 590 rms when turned to "my" highest level of volume.
This would make the ratio; 1180/90= 13.1 which is not at all an accurate depiction of anything.
John,
I fully understand what you are saying, however, their is truly no magic ratio of percentage of mid/high : low end.
Alot of component speakers can play at different db's while having the same power ran to them. For instance; you could have a set of Alpine speakers and a set of Focal speakers rated for the same wattage. However, the Focals may be twice as loud and or clear at the same volume/wattage as the type R's. It's just a tuning, and crossover game. This is why I recommend everyone matching a 4-Channel amp to their componenets optimal power rating, then running a good processor. Once your speakers are properly powered, then you can use the filters and gain to match it your subs output (or vice versa).
A couple of properly set up 6.5" speakers rated at 60 watts would have no trouble keeping up with a 1500 watt sub. Assuming all x overs, hpf, lpf, are set accordingly.
If you are still looking for a ratio;
I run Focal K2 P's up front
Type R 6x8's in the rear. Both powered by a Focal FPP 4100 (90 rms x4)
The subs are two Alpine type R 10's pushed by a Rockford T1500 (~1900rms). They are approx. receiving 590 rms when turned to "my" highest level of volume.
This would make the ratio; 1180/90= 13.1 which is not at all an accurate depiction of anything.
Idb and Joe-
I understand that one can have any sort of setup; good sound can be subjective. However, I find is hard to believe there is not rule of thumb for a balanced system. For example, for every 1 watt of mid/high = 1.25 watts of low end. Itt obviously takes more poer to run the low end.
In my 100w + 1000w example, lets use 2000w instead. the low end woulld over power the 100w x4 essentially drowning it out.. One would have to really level it down for a balance. And that would be a waste ( wrong amp/sub for the system)
See what I mean?
Engineers probably have a ratio of some sort they use. At least that seems logical to me. Yes?
I understand that one can have any sort of setup; good sound can be subjective. However, I find is hard to believe there is not rule of thumb for a balanced system. For example, for every 1 watt of mid/high = 1.25 watts of low end. Itt obviously takes more poer to run the low end.
In my 100w + 1000w example, lets use 2000w instead. the low end woulld over power the 100w x4 essentially drowning it out.. One would have to really level it down for a balance. And that would be a waste ( wrong amp/sub for the system)
See what I mean?
Engineers probably have a ratio of some sort they use. At least that seems logical to me. Yes?
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05-03-2012, 01:15 PM
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
ibd,
That sense makes too. And you're absolutely right... db's/efficiencies matter.
I still think, if all other variables are equal, there would be a wattage ratio per output type. Formula like this for example, assuming speaker and amp RMS match:
(db @ 1 watt/100)*(amp RMS)*(Channel)/(db @ 1 watt/100)*(amp RMS)*(Channel)
So, in my old set up... it's be
((90db/100)*(25)*(4))/((88db/100)*250*1)) = 9:22 For every 9 watts of high/mid, you'd want 22 watts of sub. or for every 1 watt of high/mid, you need 2.44 of sub wattage.
I get that frequency pass makes a difference... if mid bass goes pretty low (100hz), and that's something the sub no longer needs to handle, then the ratio would shift.
Hmmm... Interesting thought, imo.
Again, I'm confident, I'm not inventing the wheel.
Google rocks! Check out this thread: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...wer-ratio.html
That sense makes too. And you're absolutely right... db's/efficiencies matter.
I still think, if all other variables are equal, there would be a wattage ratio per output type. Formula like this for example, assuming speaker and amp RMS match:
(db @ 1 watt/100)*(amp RMS)*(Channel)/(db @ 1 watt/100)*(amp RMS)*(Channel)
So, in my old set up... it's be
((90db/100)*(25)*(4))/((88db/100)*250*1)) = 9:22 For every 9 watts of high/mid, you'd want 22 watts of sub. or for every 1 watt of high/mid, you need 2.44 of sub wattage.
I get that frequency pass makes a difference... if mid bass goes pretty low (100hz), and that's something the sub no longer needs to handle, then the ratio would shift.
Hmmm... Interesting thought, imo.
Again, I'm confident, I'm not inventing the wheel.
Google rocks! Check out this thread: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...wer-ratio.html
05-03-2012, 02:17 PM
#9
I understand your logic and numerical work, but in all honest, it comes down to how you like your system to sound.
Do you want over bearing bass? Over bearing mids? Equalization? Or for SPL? Or for SQ?
All of these scenarios would have different ratios.
Do you want over bearing bass? Over bearing mids? Equalization? Or for SPL? Or for SQ?
All of these scenarios would have different ratios.
05-03-2012, 02:36 PM
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The genesis of the question was I was looking for a 40w x 4 amp and saw a 50w x 4 version (both Prime from Rockford Fosgate) and i wondered if getting the 50 would be a waste, as my sub and it's amp's output is already fixed (purchased). And since it all worked well with 25w x 4 on my old set up, was 40w x 4 over the top and subsequently be a waste?
All that said, more power is better. At higher db's, it'll be cleaner and/or the amp won't have to work as hard, etc... etc...
Anyways... interesting conversation! Thanks.