Alpine H800 going back...
07-24-2012, 07:39 AM
#11
Originally Posted by boostinAK
I ended up going with the LC8i for my summing unit, that way I'm left with all 8 channels being utilized, Fronts summed together and rear, center, and sub all pass through. Also, are you using both sets of wires from the factory? If not, you're only providing your system with half the power from the headunit
07-24-2012, 08:36 PM
#12
Okay now we're getting somewhere. First off, I am summing the front tweets, front mids, and subs. This is the best way I have found to sum everything and seems to be the way others are doing it. The MS-8 or LC8i would be the only way I would use the rear door signals. There are two things to keep in mind here. One is the desire to achieve a full range signal. I think this can be done with front tweeters OR the rear doors, either one. As long as you catch all frequencies you are fine. Two, and this was important for me, is the way the factory HU attenuates certain channels for voice prompts. Generally speaking, navigation and SYNC prompts lower the front speaker volumes but maintain the rear speaker volumes. For this reason I wanted to keep front and rear separate while summing. Plus on the JL CL-SSI it asks for a high, mid, and low signal.
Moving on, the LC(6 or 8)i is a fantastic summing device. They are a couple hundred bucks or so. And I would just grab one but already have the Cleansweep unit. At first I decided to just use the Cleansweep's summing device, which worked to sum, but like the Audiocontrol units it failed to offer any unEQ of the factory signal. Insert the actual Cleansweep and I think I am in good shape. So now I run from the factory HU into the SSI, signal gets summed. Then into the Cleansweep, signal gets flattened and gets a voltage boost. Then I provide the H800 with a front/rear, flat, full range clean signal. The Alpine takes it from there.
My next step is to add one more amp. I am going to bridge my Alpine 50x4 to get 150x2 and power the front Focals with that. I am adding the exact same amp to power the rear Focals at 150x2 as well. Then keep 500 on my JL subs.
More to come.
Moving on, the LC(6 or 8)i is a fantastic summing device. They are a couple hundred bucks or so. And I would just grab one but already have the Cleansweep unit. At first I decided to just use the Cleansweep's summing device, which worked to sum, but like the Audiocontrol units it failed to offer any unEQ of the factory signal. Insert the actual Cleansweep and I think I am in good shape. So now I run from the factory HU into the SSI, signal gets summed. Then into the Cleansweep, signal gets flattened and gets a voltage boost. Then I provide the H800 with a front/rear, flat, full range clean signal. The Alpine takes it from there.
My next step is to add one more amp. I am going to bridge my Alpine 50x4 to get 150x2 and power the front Focals with that. I am adding the exact same amp to power the rear Focals at 150x2 as well. Then keep 500 on my JL subs.
More to come.
07-25-2012, 05:26 AM
#13
Ohh it looks like my late night typing got the best of me.. "Both sets" was referring to the sub connections. It being a dual voice coil sub, you'll need all 4 wires to get maximum subwoofer output. Im not sure the reason why, but before I wired them all together, I had horrible sub output.
07-25-2012, 05:55 AM
#14
So, the only way one is going to grab full range signals in these trucks is:
A) Sum front mids and tweets
B) Use rear speakers
My original idea I never tried was to switch the fronts and rears so the rear factory outputs where what I was using up front. I nixed that idea because I wanted the system to appear factory even as far as in the HU.
The cleansweep's biggest limitation in our application is the lack of in and outputs. If we had a normal vehicle system (4 speakers and a sub) we would be great. One reason I decided to stay away in my otherwise all JL system is if you sum the front inputs and you put them through the dsp, you only have the fronts going through the dsp, nothing else.
Im not sure what your design goals are for your system, be it a slight upgrade or an all out system using high quality components because Ford gave us the shaft when it came to a $2000+ factory stereo. If you're looking to keep all 8 speakers in the truck working, your best bet would be to drop the cleansweep and go with something that can sum what you need it to and leave out the rest.
The only outputs from the factory we need summed are the front tweets and mids. The mids play a low enough frequency that you dont need to add sub signals to them. If using something with 8 inputs like the ms-8, lc8i, etc, you will have the front four inputs, the rear two and the sub and center will occupy the last 4 wire inputs as they are both mono signals.
Now I cant vouch for the other processors out there but that Alpine unit is a powerful one. Its going to take time to play with but as long as it has all the inputs from factory, you'll have a truck that does exactly what your factory system did without the factory overrides.
A) Sum front mids and tweets
B) Use rear speakers
My original idea I never tried was to switch the fronts and rears so the rear factory outputs where what I was using up front. I nixed that idea because I wanted the system to appear factory even as far as in the HU.
The cleansweep's biggest limitation in our application is the lack of in and outputs. If we had a normal vehicle system (4 speakers and a sub) we would be great. One reason I decided to stay away in my otherwise all JL system is if you sum the front inputs and you put them through the dsp, you only have the fronts going through the dsp, nothing else.
Im not sure what your design goals are for your system, be it a slight upgrade or an all out system using high quality components because Ford gave us the shaft when it came to a $2000+ factory stereo. If you're looking to keep all 8 speakers in the truck working, your best bet would be to drop the cleansweep and go with something that can sum what you need it to and leave out the rest.
The only outputs from the factory we need summed are the front tweets and mids. The mids play a low enough frequency that you dont need to add sub signals to them. If using something with 8 inputs like the ms-8, lc8i, etc, you will have the front four inputs, the rear two and the sub and center will occupy the last 4 wire inputs as they are both mono signals.
Now I cant vouch for the other processors out there but that Alpine unit is a powerful one. Its going to take time to play with but as long as it has all the inputs from factory, you'll have a truck that does exactly what your factory system did without the factory overrides.
07-25-2012, 07:26 AM
#15
Originally Posted by boostinAK
So, the only way one is going to grab full range signals in these trucks is:
A) Sum front mids and tweets
B) Use rear speakers
My original idea I never tried was to switch the fronts and rears so the rear factory outputs where what I was using up front. I nixed that idea because I wanted the system to appear factory even as far as in the HU.
The cleansweep's biggest limitation in our application is the lack of in and outputs. If we had a normal vehicle system (4 speakers and a sub) we would be great. One reason I decided to stay away in my otherwise all JL system is if you sum the front inputs and you put them through the dsp, you only have the fronts going through the dsp, nothing else.
Im not sure what your design goals are for your system, be it a slight upgrade or an all out system using high quality components because Ford gave us the shaft when it came to a $2000+ factory stereo. If you're looking to keep all 8 speakers in the truck working, your best bet would be to drop the cleansweep and go with something that can sum what you need it to and leave out the rest.
The only outputs from the factory we need summed are the front tweets and mids. The mids play a low enough frequency that you dont need to add sub signals to them. If using something with 8 inputs like the ms-8, lc8i, etc, you will have the front four inputs, the rear two and the sub and center will occupy the last 4 wire inputs as they are both mono signals.
Now I cant vouch for the other processors out there but that Alpine unit is a powerful one. Its going to take time to play with but as long as it has all the inputs from factory, you'll have a truck that does exactly what your factory system did without the factory overrides.
A) Sum front mids and tweets
B) Use rear speakers
My original idea I never tried was to switch the fronts and rears so the rear factory outputs where what I was using up front. I nixed that idea because I wanted the system to appear factory even as far as in the HU.
The cleansweep's biggest limitation in our application is the lack of in and outputs. If we had a normal vehicle system (4 speakers and a sub) we would be great. One reason I decided to stay away in my otherwise all JL system is if you sum the front inputs and you put them through the dsp, you only have the fronts going through the dsp, nothing else.
Im not sure what your design goals are for your system, be it a slight upgrade or an all out system using high quality components because Ford gave us the shaft when it came to a $2000+ factory stereo. If you're looking to keep all 8 speakers in the truck working, your best bet would be to drop the cleansweep and go with something that can sum what you need it to and leave out the rest.
The only outputs from the factory we need summed are the front tweets and mids. The mids play a low enough frequency that you dont need to add sub signals to them. If using something with 8 inputs like the ms-8, lc8i, etc, you will have the front four inputs, the rear two and the sub and center will occupy the last 4 wire inputs as they are both mono signals.
Now I cant vouch for the other processors out there but that Alpine unit is a powerful one. Its going to take time to play with but as long as it has all the inputs from factory, you'll have a truck that does exactly what your factory system did without the factory overrides.
At the end of the day, if I get in my truck and get excited about every song, even if someone else tells me it's crap SQ, I succeeded. I think too often we forget who we are doing all of this for. If you're happy, boom.
Side note I'd love to see some pics of your setup, or a link.
07-25-2012, 02:03 PM
#16
Senior Member
