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Old 10-05-2012, 08:40 PM   #941
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Quick question. If you like the European idea of government then why aren't you there opinyawn? Just curious
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:51 PM   #942
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Originally Posted by MR.FX4 View Post
No one is arguing these socialist policies are not possible if paid for. The U.S. Has made it very clear we are not willing to pay the cost of them. So either raise the money needed our cut the programs, don't pass a trillion dollar medical entitlement program when we already have a trillion dollar deficit
I guess I might as well be real stupid and respond to you too knowing I'll be sorry!

Obama's belief and mine too is that the nearly 19% of GNP going to healthcare costs is the biggest and most dangerous cause of our rising national debt that year after year has never been addressed. He is trying to do something to get it under control while certain Republicans have been committed to protecting the profits of those getting that nearly 19% of GNP in their pockets. We should be able to both "Walk and chew gum" at the same time! We need to "both" make Obamacare work and create jobs at the same time to reduce the national debt! Obama made the hard choice not to "kick the can down the road" of 19% of GNP being spent on healthcare when other countries cover every citizen with 8%! Saving 10% of GNP might just help lower our national debt! We hear it can't work even when we have the evidence of it working in other countries!

Too bad some Republicans won't stop protecting insurance and drug company profits and help Obama make it work by squeezing down the costs with their ideas! Countries around the world that spend only 8% GNP on healthcare still have caring doctors and good treatment! Don't beleive the propaganda of those getting the healthcare mess profits! Of course they don't want any change in the system they got fat on!
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:00 PM   #943
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Originally Posted by opinyawn

Due to the msiunderstanding from my post I will temporarily break my rule nto to communicate with you! LOL!

Thank you for you for your concern.... but my comment about losing your house because of medical bills luckily didn't happen to me, but I personally know people it has happened to prior to Obamacare.

I'm not suggesting we copy Denmark, but rather understand there are different ways to structure a society, and democracy says that people should have the right to decide without the 1% telling them it will not be permitted. Many people in Europe are willing to pay high taxes if it provides them with the lifestyle they want. That's their choice and most of Europe will survive nicely. The problems Greece and Spain are not found in Germany and Denmark.... so these progams are not the main cause of problems. Greece and Spain has done lots of dumb things! Remember what we may save in lower taxes we pay out in many other places! Denmark's higher taxes does not mean they have a lower standard of living.... just the opposite! Americans should be able to make these decisions like about Obamacare based on facts, not scare tactics like Romeny's debate throwback to the "Death Panels" of Sarah Palin! What crap! Travel in Europe and you'll never hear about all the "scare tactics" thrown at us by those sucking up the nearly 19% of GNP to support our hodge podge healthcare system! People are not dying in the streets of Northern Europe from poor healthcare! They are more likely working less than Americans and having a glass of wine sitting in the square of their town enjoying life more. They seem to value living more than owning property from my observation! They seem to realize you can't take it with you.... so enjoy it now! I'd trade some money for more life and health and probably other Americans would too!
This is America for a reason. No need to compare to other countries. Who really cares what they are doing. I'm worried about what we are doing.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:04 PM   #944
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Originally Posted by opinyawn

I guess I might as well be real stupid and respond to you too knowing I'll be sorry!

Obama's belief and mine too is that the nearly 19% of GNP going to healthcare costs is the biggest and most dangerous cause of our rising national debt that year after year has never been addressed. He is trying to do something to get it under control while certain Republicans have been committed to protecting the profits of those getting that nearly 19% of GNP in their pockets. We should be able to both "Walk and chew gum" at the same time! We need to "both" make Obamacare work and create jobs at the same time to reduce the national debt! Obama made the hard choice not to "kick the can down the road" of 19% of GNP being spent on healthcare when other countries cover every citizen with 8%! Saving 10% of GNP might just help lower our national debt! We hear it can't work even when we have the evidence of it working in other countries!

Too bad some Republicans won't stop protecting insurance and drug company profits and help Obama make it work by squeezing down the costs with their ideas! Countries around the world that spend only 8% GNP on healthcare still have caring doctors and good treatment! Don't beleive the propaganda of those getting the healthcare mess profits! Of course they don't want any change in the system they got fat on!
Obamacare does not bring down the debt, it adds to it. If he wanted to make it work he should have balanced the budget THEN said "i want to pass this entitlement program, here is how i will pay for it". I believe he counts the money saved by ending the wars as going towards Obamacare and bringing down the deficit, is that correct?
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:05 PM   #945
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Originally Posted by opinyawn

I guess I might as well be real stupid and respond to you too knowing I'll be sorry!

Obama's belief and mine too is that the nearly 19% of GNP going to healthcare costs is the biggest and most dangerous cause of our rising national debt that year after year has never been addressed. He is trying to do something to get it under control while certain Republicans have been committed to protecting the profits of those getting that nearly 19% of GNP. We should be able to both "Walk and chew gum" at the same time! We need to "both" make Obamacare work and create jobs at the same time to reduce the national debt! Obama made the hard choice not to "kick the can down the road" of 19% of GNP being spent on healthcare when other countries cover every citizen with 8%! Saving 10% of GNP might just help lower our national debt! We hear it can't work even when we have the evidence of it working in other countries!

Too bad Republicans won't stop protecting insurance and drug company profits and help Obama make it work by squeezing down the costs! Countries around the world that spend only 8% GNP on healthcare still have caring doctors and good treatment! Don't beleive the propaganda of those getting the healthcare mess profits! Of course they don't ant any change!
No, the biggest and most dangerous cause of our rising debt is the people in charge on BOTH sides! The amount of money being spent for the most useless programs that do nothing but reward incompetence is ridiculous. The special interest crap is on both sides yet the American people are too caught up in American Idol and NFL to care that the gov't is taking over their lives but they could care less as long as football is on and they've got a cell phone to text all their so called "friends". I'm not afraid to blame society because honestly, I'm pretty sick of how dependent everyone else is on someone to take care of them. This is America, we take care of ourselves, fix our own problems and strive to be the best. It doesn't seem to be that way anymore. Look at America, it's a service economy and the production has moved to more profitable locations. We should've seen this coming but we're too blind. When actors and sports players and politicians make more than the soldiers willing to die for our freedom you know there is a problem. I don't want legislators that push a healthcare bill saying that you have to pass it before you get to read it. That's BS and not constitutional. I still can't believe the citizens of California continue to elect her year after year but it doesn't surprise me by the way the state is heading off the cliff into the ocean. Stop the waste, reimpose a stricter welfare cutoff than the nearly non-existent system now, punish those who abuse it and let everyone have their fair chance by easing up on small business, not raising taxes on the top 3% of small businesses who employ 50% of workers. That's not how you create employment. Printing $40 billion a month (IIRC) with no deadline is not the solution either.

Alright, enough rant for now.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:06 PM   #946
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Quick question. If you like the European idea of government then why aren't you there opinyawn? Just curious
Is this the old, "Love it or leave it!" argument of the 60's returned! LOL!

Honestly if I knew the future of our country when I got out of college, I might have considered Canada or Northern Europe. My allegiance is probably more to the people of this country that to it's goverment! When the Vietnam War started I made a judgement to not die in it when I knew it served absolutely no purpose from reading history, but I could not go to Canada to avoid the draft and look in the mirror! So, I joined the National Guard and then almost got killed in the Watts Riots and lived just by dumb luck! Then another time in a war game I almost got it from a short fired 105 MM artillery round that exploded right above my truck covering it with a tree and scrapnel!

You takes your choices and then chit happens.... and there you are!
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:11 PM   #947
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Originally Posted by opinyawn View Post
Due to the msiunderstanding from my post I will temporarily break my rule nto to communicate with you! LOL!

Thank you for you for your concern.... but my comment about losing your house because of medical bills luckily didn't happen to me, but I personally know people it has happened to prior to Obamacare.

I'm not suggesting we copy Denmark, but rather understand there are different ways to structure a society, and democracy says that people should have the right to decide without the 1% telling them it will not be permitted. Many people in Europe are willing to pay high taxes if it provides them with the lifestyle they want. That's their choice and most of Europe will survive nicely. The problems Greece and Spain are not found in Germany and Denmark.... so these progams are not the main cause of problems. Greece and Spain has done lots of dumb things! Remember what we may save in lower taxes we pay out in many other places! Denmark's higher taxes does not mean they have a lower standard of living.... just the opposite! Americans should be able to make these decisions like about Obamacare based on facts, not scare tactics like Romeny's debate throwback to the "Death Panels" of Sarah Palin! What crap! Travel in Europe and you'll never hear about all the "scare tactics" thrown at us by those sucking up the nearly 19% of GNP to support our hodge podge healthcare system! People are not dying in the streets of Northern Europe from poor healthcare! They are more likely working less than Americans and having a glass of wine sitting in the square of their town enjoying life more. They seem to value living more than owning property from my observation! They seem to realize you can't take it with you.... so enjoy it now! I'd trade some money for more life and health and probably other Americans would too!

I would have to question to some degree if there were other financial irresponsibilitys going on in the household, and the medical bills put them over the edge ?
Once again your data is incomplete ! While the concept of Obama care may be good in part, it can never truly succeed its financial saving intent in this country ! The American public has become accustomed to a Cadillac health care system on a Kia budget. The rest of the world tends to come here for their serious healthcare ! I would also speculate that the Europeans as a whole might be a healthier bunch ? There is no magic bullet fix for our system, but it really needs to be a group effort ?
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:11 PM   #948
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Originally Posted by MR.FX4 View Post
No one is arguing these socialist policies are not possible if paid for. The U.S. Has made it very clear we are not willing to pay the cost of them. So either raise the money needed our cut the programs, don't pass a trillion dollar medical entitlement program when we already have a trillion dollar deficit
Agreed. Medicare part D was a disaster in the making.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:12 PM   #949
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Originally Posted by MR.FX4

Obamacare does not bring down the debt, it adds to it. If he wanted to make it work he should have balanced the budget THEN said "i want to pass this entitlement program, here is how i will pay for it". I believe he counts the money saved by ending the wars as going towards Obamacare and bringing down the deficit, is that correct?
And telling hospitals what they will charge for services. You'll eventually have government ran hospitals with low end doctors and lousy service and private hospitals. Country will be divided more than it is now.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:15 PM   #950
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Good post XLT
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:15 PM
 
 
 
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