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Old 09-30-2012, 11:49 PM   #521
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Whether or not these actions incited violence, the violence you're all talking about is occurring in foreign countries, so your references to U.S. statutes is meaningless.
Here's a good example of the approach around here that makes it difficult to have a discussion! I'm speaking to the morality of the issue as related to "Freedom of Speech" an Americans being killed, and you are making it an issue as to whether U.S. Statutes apply. It sort of dodges my moral point.... to make your point. Anybody an international lawyer on the thread? Not me, but I know U.S. citizens have been charged with crimes for planning sexual acts that actually will actually occur in foreign countries.

To be clear:

Do you think I should be able to say, or do something with impunity that is designed for the clear purpose of enraging some loons and that causes other people to die, and then be able to hide behind the 1st Amendment?
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:51 PM   #522
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Can you be sure the purpose was to anger them and incite violence? That's the bigger question that this argument is hinging on...
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:00 AM   #523
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Yes I do!
Then you sir would be wrong !
If you would look at my join date and post count compared to yours, then it should become clear that I am striving to be part of the one percent that will carry the 47 percent !
I just wish that Obama would come up with that $750,000 so I can feel like I am paying my fair share ?
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:00 AM   #524
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It most obviously did incite violence! Should it? Of course not, no argument... but it does! If I scream fire in a movie theatre people should not selfishly trample others either.... but it happens, and we hold the person who screamed fire responsible.

I'm not suggesting that no one can express an opinion about a religion, but when they commit an act designed to offend or attack anothers religion knowing that it may cause violence they must be held responsible!

If you approach a nice, young, married couple in a restaurant and express the opinion for all to hear, that the young woman is a skanky ***** do you have any reponsibility for the punch in the mouth you receive from her husband or are you just using your Free Speech to express an opinion! Silly example, not really! Burning the Koran or ridiculing Mohammed is a great offense to Muslims and some will turn to violence. If a jury decides that was your purpose you should not be allowed to hide behind Freedom of Speech and cause innocent people to die!
Burning the bible is an offense to Christians and ridiculing Jesus and God are as well yet 99% of us aren't flying off the handle an killing others.
Same thing with burning a the flag.

And freedom of speech will protect them it's what it's there for. If this were a public forum and I called you an ignorant *** I could use freedom of speech to defend what I said but this isn't a public forum. And I'm not allowed to be demeaning towards other members
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:04 AM   #525
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[QUOTE=opinyawn;2069881]Like the old line at a V.P. debate:

I remember Reagan, and Romney is no Reagan!

I disagreed with Reagan, but he had values he stuck to and that was respected!


Now don't you think that is most of the problem with Obama ? What passes his lips and the action he takes are two different things ! Makes people unsure of his intentions ?
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:05 AM   #526
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Ask Kyle...
Was it true and factual ?
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:08 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by Left Plate

Then you sir would be wrong !
If you would look at my join date and post count compared to yours, then it should become clear that I am striving to be part of the one percent that will carry the 47 percent !
I just wish that Obama would come up with that $750,000 so I can feel like I am paying my fair share ?
Does your last sentence have any bearing to how much the Obamas' income for 2011 was cause $750k is close IIRC. Just wondering
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:09 AM   #528
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Was it true and factual ?
Not sure, I just saw it at a glance and didn't have the opportunity to fact check it. If a location were given it would help as CA and TX have much different prices
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:14 AM   #529
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Can you be sure the purpose was to anger them and incite violence? That's the bigger question that this argument is hinging on...
I agree, and that is exactly what a district attorney and a jury would have to decide based on the facts!

It's interesting how many people cannot separate my wanting people to be responsible for what they do that harm it might cause the death of others and supporting the 1st Amendment. They need to get the religion aspect out of it that clouds their logic!

Example: Let's say I printed in the newspaper that you were such a horrible person that you should not be allowed to live on this Earth with good people for whatever reason! The next day after reading what I said, a mob stormed your house and hung you in your front yard from a tree. Do I have any responsibility for your murder, or do we just say the mob was terribly wrong, but I was completely innocent and only expressing my Freedom of Speech!

Without the religion and Muslims mixed in it sounds different!
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:21 AM   #530
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Originally Posted by opinyawn

I agree, and that is exactly what a district attorney and a jury would have to decide based on the facts!

It's interesting how many people cannot separate my wanting people to be responsible for what they do that harm it might cause the death of others and supporting the 1st Amendment. They need to get the religion aspect out of it that clouds their logic!

Example: Let's say I printed in the newspaper that you were such a horrible person that you should not be allowed to live on this Earth with good people! The next day after reading what I said a mob stormed your house and hung you in your front yard from a tree. Do I have any responsibility for your murder, or do we just say the mob was terribly wrong, but I was innocent and only expressing my Freedom of Speech!

Without the religion and Muslims mixed in it sounds different!
I'm kinda in the middle on this one.

Two problems with your example. First, we it would be about them and we would be related or acquaintances. And it wasn't just a mob, it was a planned (or as far as we know it was) attack that used the film as an excuse. So more like a mob wanted to hang me from a tree and when you released your article about them being, for example we'll say it was racist, it went unnoticed till the tv media played it. Then on the anniversary that a few of my relatives died by the same mob, they attacked and hung me, using your piece as an excuse.

That's a more accurate example.
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