F150Torqued

The PHASERS start out at one extreem position of NO RETARD, and are actuated only one in direction - toward a maximum RETARD.


The ECU achieves a desired (or requested) VALVE TIMING "RETARD" by applying a voltage (by duty cycle between 0 to 100%) to the VCT Solenoids.


With NO requested retard [no voltage (Zero duty cycle) is being applied to VCTs], the phaser "return spring", along with the VCT Solenoids routhing oil into the proper PHASER chambers, the phaser vanes are pushed to the "DEFAULT" cam timing - or "ADVANCE" position. Another way to express it is, to the maximum "NO RETARD position". This is the relaxed, or engine off, or startup, and idle position. See image number four in these great photos: https://www.f150forum.com/f68/5-4l-c...57/#post204248


MY QUEStiON IS: In this "DEFAULT" state or position, how many degrees "ADVANCE" is the camshaft actually at? I don't believe this unidirectional adjustment occomodates NO advance at all. I know some camshafts can actually be ground with a few degrees of advance - but I'm not asking about this. The question has to do strictly with actual camshaft positioning with respect to the crankshaft, either in "camshaft degrees" or "crankshaft degrees" (which is twice that of camshaft degrees) so long as I know which.


The Phaser design seems to provide maximum adjustment capability of about 35-38 camshaft degš, or 70-76 crankshaft degš. [[ 1/2 of each of 5 phaser chambers ((360š/5)/2) ]] See photos in above link?


REASON FOR QUESTION: I have identified and isolated four unpublished PIDs available from the ECU on my 2004 Ford 5.4L 3v that give real time operational data concerning the variable valve timing system. I have the parameters working on Custom PIDs and custom gauges to read these PIDs on the TORQUE PRO application. But, for one, being RETARD REQUESTED by the ECU (In Cks Degš), I need the proper "offset" (in degrees) for my formula to make the guage accurately read camshaft position accross the full range of ECU requested retard.


These unpublished parameter ID's are probably there for the FORD Dealership's diagnostic equipment, and as prevelant as problems are with phasers, I want to perfect my formulas. If someone can help answer this question, I will provide information for inputing these four Custom PIDs into the TORQUE PRO APP. If anyone is interested they are:
1) VCTENA - Conditions correct for Variable Valve Timing operation.
2) RCAM - Requested Cam Retard (in crankshaft degrees)
3) CAMDCR Commanded Duty Cycle for VCT Solenoid (in %)
4) CAMERRR VCT CAM Error (in Crankshaft Degrees) [[ plus or minus degrees that cams are OUT of sync with requested retard - this parameter "leads to" cam position DTC codes (P0011, P0012, P0021, and P0022).


Thanks for information any technical or engineer type can provide regarding "5.4L CAM ADVANCE in the default phaser position"

F150Torqued

^^^ BUMP ^^^


What?? 880 views and ZERO replies. Is there no one out there who knows the answer? Not even the manufacturers of Lockouts - which locks the Phasers in FULL ADVANCE state ---- whatever number of degš that is --- they can't even tell you!

Martian

1) Relax.

2) You see "views" from people merely opening the thread. I'm willing to bet most of them see nothing but a wall of text, then back out of the thread. Try making a shorter thread.

Martian

Plus this was posted over a year ago... to think your thread stayed on page 1 for longer than a few hours is totally unrealistic. Further, the Maintenance Shop section gets little traffic. Better luck would be to request for it to be moved into a specific year group.

F150Torqued

What's maximum š valve timing advance achievable by 5.4L 3v modular?

Martian

@Livernois Motorsports @5star any ideas?

5star

iTrader: (1)

The best route given your particular modular motor is to utilize a FMC reference manual for your given application. This will give you the true resting position of that cam.

F150Torqued

Shazam! Promise I'll look that up as soon as I find that FMC reference manual of mine. Thanks

5star

iTrader: (1)

You're welcome!

pontisteve

I'll take a shot, just based on looking at the pictures of a 5.4 phaser.

There are 5 segments, at it appears that each segment has 9 teeth. So probably 45 teeth total. The phaser looks like it's 5 points each point to a movement range of about 0 to 4.5 teeth. That's 10% of the total teeth. So if each 1 revolution of the cam gear is 720 degrees, and we can rotate the cam about 10%, that's 72 cam degrees of movement possible.

Since the crank moves only half of that, I would say that the cam can move about 36 crank degrees.

If the cam is fully advanced (or not retarded at all), then it would be installed "straight up" as far as the timing components are concerned. But what does straight up mean? The cam could have 18 degrees of advance built in for all I know. The only way to know this would be to use a degree wheel, and see where the intake centerline is, the exhaust centerline is, average the two to determine what the lobe separation angle is, and then see what the intake centerline is compared to that lobe separation angle.

Or find a Ford document that shows actual valve timing events (cam design). Or use a cam doctor machine to analyze the cams. I'm afraid that's about as far as I can take it without having the cam gear in hand, or looking at better pictures. I may be able to open the tune file, and see if any of the VCT advance range numbers are in the aftermarket tuning software, if that helps. I would need your 4 digit pcm code or 7 digit strategy code for that.