sworthen16

Hello, and first off I would like to say thank you to anyone who has a insight to this problem. I recently purchased a 04 Xlt with 98k and I've noticed the so called cam phaser tic and it's dreadful non the less.
I've tried a few tests of my own trying to pin point pin point if it's phasers or VCT solenoids, or the actual timing set itself.
Here's what I've conducted so far.
At a cold crank after sitting, there is no apparent noise like the chain clap or diesel noise. Only noise is the injectors and I can handle that. Onice warm the noise seems to become more apparent, @running temp has a awful knock and injector tick combo, not very appealing at idle to any sort. I shut the truck down and unplugged the pass side Vct and re started. There was a slight difference in sound but not much to the untrained ear. Plugged it back and did a restart with no cel thrown. Did a repeat to the driver side and it threw the cel. Also check for loose plugs to no avail still has the same noise with no power loss or stall, and seems to run fine while under a driving load. While warm and I raise the rpms the noise seems to disappear and while they drop they become noticeable again. I want to fix this before it becomes to cost effective. I tried the stealership route to only be told the same as the other brave souls...... we cam do a 1200$ phaser job and it might work, and it's just the normal sound of the 5.4. So sorry for the long post and I've read so many of theses with no actual direct approach to tackle this. Any help would greatly appreciated.

sworthen16

So, I've done a little more research today and seem to think that the main culprit of the noise is the pass side phaser. I belive that I'm going to try the lock out method on the phasers. Going to try and tackle it within the next 3 weeks or so with the livernois lock out kit. I will try to post a before and after video of the results. Any other imput would be appreciated.

F150Torqued

@sworthen16:


I beseech you to read this ENTIRE link - and specifically I beseech you to NOT install LOCK OUTS. https://www.f150forum.com/f4/final-r...-sound-141266/ (in particular review all the updates near the end of that thread.)


The problem is NOT your Phasers - even though they ARE likely where the noise is coming from! You can hear it by sticking a two foot piece of 5/8 heater hose down the oil filler cap and listening. It will sound like a freight train! The wiper vanes in the phasers are slapping the end of the phaser oil chambers at idle (under LOW oil pressure conditions). BUT the problem is with other components that the phasers are dependent upon - such as oil pressure at low RPM, VCT solenoids, loose chains and/or cam chain tensioner seals or plastic chain tensioners. Installing Lock outs does not address any of these problems.


I have been doing lots of research on my 202K mile '04 5.4L trying to track down a periodic P0022 code. I and have identified four unpublished PIDs maintained by the PCM relating to the VVT system. With my OBDII scan tool (Torque Pro), I have been monitoring four variable valve timing PIDs under various engine load conditions. I can confidently tell you - if you were to see these signals under various engine load and operating conditions, there is NO WAY you would EVER disable the variable cam timing system with a "LOCK OUT". Hell, your ECU already does EXACTLY that if VVT is not working properly!!! The ECU sets a 'flag', VCTENA "OFF" if it decides the Phasers aren't working properly. That's where _my_ P0022 is coming from. And when the ECU does this - you can FEEL the difference in low RPM power and you can SEE the difference in MPG and Fuel Trims!!!! Under the majority of my driving conditions, the variable valve timing system is applying SOME degree of adjustment to the valve timing AWAY from the default nominal position. (???perhaps 5 deg adv.) toward the maximum "retard condition" (approx. -60 Deg retard??). After "CAMERRR" exceeds a certain (??undertermined??) cumulative extent or count, I see CAMENA (Cam Enable) go "OFF"!!!! After that, there is NO MORE VCT Solenoid duty cycle or (RCAM) Requested Cam Retard for the _balance of that drive cycle_!!! If I'm going up a hill, or pulling a trailer ---- I can FEEL a difference in power and I can see the Short Term Fuel Trim go positive. (of course, that ultimately effects Long Term Fuel trim and overall fuel mileage!


I am trying to perfect the formulas to display (RCAM)"requested retard" and (CAMERRR) "cam error retard" in crankshaft degrees properly on gauges, but what I can see already tells me that the V V T system definitely improves fuel economy and power of the engine. [[ that should be no surprise as ALL manufacturers are now using some form of variable valve timing ]]


Volumes can be written about what I don't know. But here is what I do know. If you have, or can acquire, or you take your vehicle to a mechanic that has the ability to monitor these unpublished parameter ID's (PIDs) under various driving conditions you can see what's going on. On a 2004 Ford 5.4L 3v Ford - the relevant PIDs are:


VCTENA - Conditions correct to enable variable valve timing - Hex "16B1", response is one byte, bit 5 : 1=ON/ 0=OFF



RCAM - Requested Cam Retard in crankshaft degrees - Hex "16CD", responde two bytes signed binary (in cks deg ?????) 5 deg adv?? to -60 deg retard??



CAMDCR - VCT Commanded Duty Cycle - Hex "16CF", response is two bytes binary in percent duty cycle, formula = ((A*256)+B)*(100/32767)



CAMERRR -Cam Error Retard - Hex "16CE", response is two bytes binary in accumulative Cks Deg - 120 deg to + 120 deg of bank 1 and bank 2. The ECU must adds the cam error in degrees for bank 1 and bank 2 ????. I've seen CAMERRR degrees exceed 60, but have never seen RCAM exceed -60 degrees. However the ECU can report DTCs for bank1 (P0021) and bank 2 (P0022) separately. I guess it doesn't matter as far as CAMERRR is concerned!!! One or the other CAM is not responding to RCAM properly.


Considering the above, I plan to "bite the bullet" and replace everything under the timing cover on mine, and try to salvage the benefits the design intended for variable valve timing.


Having said ALL that (my 2 cents worth) - I wish you the best whatever you decide to do. Best of Luck

sworthen16

Thanks for your input, Im still hesitant as to which route I should take. I just purchased this truck about 3 weeks ago and I love it, but I know the sound that this thing is making will surely be the demise of it if nothing is done. I wish I could just throw money at it and hope it works. I've read countless stories of people replacing all the internal timing parts from phasers, chains, guides, tensioners and even the newly designed high output oil pump that jasper engines are using. I have also read stories of success with both loc outs and new timing sets. So I'm really at a loss and don't know what to do, I would like to keep the truck but with jasper leading the sales market in these 5.4s selling an average of 5 a week remans it really is a scary thought of keeping this thing.

txresq

I just wanted to add my experience as you try to decide what to do. I participated in the aforementioned thread about the "final repair guide" and cam phaser lockouts.

I had the same issues that so many 3V 5.4 owners have and decided to try the lockouts. I installed them in 08/2012 and have about 60,000 miles on them since installation. My truck has run quieter and smoother than most 5.4 f150s on the road.

The only issue I've had was a pair of failed timing tensioners that caused the passenger side fixed timing chain guide to break.

After some research I discovered that the tensioners from the older f150s were cast iron and a much better design IMO. Most importantly, they mount up perfectly to the 3V 5.4 (2004-2008) perfectly.

So, I replaced my guides and tensioners (iron) and never looked back.

I can only comment on my experience, but I've had great luck and longevity with livernois lockouts combined with cast iron tensioners.

The tensioner part numbers are cloyes 9-5338 & 9-5339 if you're interested. Truthfully, I'd do the iron tensioners regardless of the lockouts.